308 win 2000-MR powder

[Orr89rocz]

Just put together a 308 for a practice toy and also plan to do some longer range deer hunting with. Since im getting lower on reloder 23 for my 300 wsm im shelving that gun for hunting season and practicing with the more economical 308 lol

I dont like to shoot too much in summer due to temps and all my loads are usually developed in fall/winter in hunting conditions but ive been impressed with power pro 2000 mr. I think these are hot loads but so far everything seems good. Maybe a faint hint of a ejector mark but primers look good and bolt lift very smooth. Just seems fast to me.

26” shilen select match barrel. Saami chamber

Working two bullets. 165 gr Sierra gamechangers which i love the 110 gr in my 257 rob. And berger elite hunter 180 gr.
I have loaded 180 nosler ballistic tips in very good groups with my brothers 308 with 2000mr. But i havent run his up this high

I’m at 50.1 grains in lapua cases and cci 250 primers with the 165 gamechangers doing 2950-2960 fps. Doing seating now but its pretty decent so far. I do have a good node at 2800 fps tho that may prove to be more accurate.

I’m at 48.2 grains with same cases and primers with the berger 180. Its 2800-2820 fps range so far. Still fine tuning charge and seating depth now. Hasnt been as promising accuracy wise yet but we shall see. I do have some slower nodes that may be better.

Im impressed with that speed. It seems higher than i would expect. What you think?

 

[XTR]

Search the powder here, there is a lot of discussion. The really short version is back during the 2013ish shortages lots of us tried it for F-TR. It gave great velocity, some great five shot groups, and about four 9-ring flyers per match on a 20 shot match.

I use what I have left for my 7-08 hunting loads.

 

[Ray123]

On my light 308 hunting rifle 7 3/4 lbs with detachable mag no scope in 308 22" 9 twist Rem varmint contour Bartlein barrel, my own no neck turn reamer. I shoot 168 Berger hunting bullets at 2936 to 2942 fps with MR 2000 but its set up for 200 gr Serria MK .715 BC hence the 9 twist at 2740 fps in the 22" barrel, or 225 gr ELDM at 2574 Ave fps 22" barrel but I use 6.5 staball powder for bullets over 200 grains for higher velocities. I have 8 308s in barrels from 18, 22 24 27 &30 inches. Twist rstes 12, 10, 9, & 8 . The 22" gets good velocities in the bolt gun without the length and weight of the others for packing around. In the ar 10 I like the 18" Proof for convenience and accuracy, but free velocity is left on the table compared to the heavier 24" Schilen AR10. I go lighter for walking around and heavier for bench or long range target. My current hunting rifle is a modified to feed 2.910" cartridges out of the mag in 350 Rem Mag 20" model 7 pillar bedded walnut stock tactical bolt knob, light leupold scope. Shooting good groups and high velocities with MR 2000. My favorite is 250 gr bullet at 2630 fps out of a 20" barrel, but is also accurate with the 280 Swift and the 310 Woodleigh for heavier game. It'll also push the 200s and 225s at good speed if ya like light bullets for that caliber. I bought 4 kegs of 2000 MR and one is empty, along with 2 kegs of 6.5 Stabal..good powders for a specific purpose.

 

[paulT]

What high velocity ranges with mr2000 and 185g hybrids/juggs have been reached with 30/32in .308 barrels fr FTR.

 

[ROBARRC50]

What high velocity ranges with mr2000 and 185g hybrids/juggs have been reached with 30/32in .308 barrels fr FTR.

I have shot them to 2900 in a 29 inch barrel pretty hot load thrashed brass. 2750_2775 fps range seemed way more consistent from a 21 22 25 26 29 inch barrels. I was not shooting ftr just long range paper punching and steel ringing. Ended up needing 2 loads for temp changes as i was averaging .8 fps per degree change. Then i started shooting solids with that powder just for kicks for longrange 308 fun. Not sure if this helps you any those were my results with it.

 

[Ray123]

What high velocity ranges with mr2000 and 185g hybrids/juggs have been reached with 30/32in .308 barrels fr FTR.

I don't run 185 gr but I do run 200 gr SMK .715 BC in a 8 twist 30" 5 R Bartlein heavy plama barrel, aluminum chasis, long action uses 30-06 mags and throated long. The 200 gr SMK averaged 2856 fps, as my go to load. 7.31 mil to 1000 yds 100 yd zero, 88 deg temp, last time out.

 

[XTR]

What high velocity ranges with mr2000 and 185g hybrids/juggs have been reached with 30/32in .308 barrels fr FTR.

I never ran them above the high 2700s in matches, but there were reports of folks running in the 2900s, then again it was on the internet so whether it was real or safe is for you to decide.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Makes me wonder why the 308 gets a bad rep against the 6.5 creed. These type of loads will hang or exceed the creed ballistics.

I am not throated long. Kinda wish i was but for what im using this for, the 165-180 gr range will work perfectly. It probably could be a few thousandths longer in free bore since i can fit 2.97 oal in mag. 180 berger is in lands at 2.94 and 165 gsmechanger is 2.88

Some impressive numbers from this case posted here.

 

[XTR]

Makes me wonder why the 308 gets a bad rep against the 6.5 creed. These type of loads will hang or exceed the creed ballistics.

advertising marketing

 

[Ned Ludd]

Makes me wonder why the 308 gets a bad rep against the 6.5 creed. These type of loads will hang or exceed the creed ballistics.

I am not throated long. Kinda wish i was but for what im using this for, the 165-180 gr range will work perfectly. It probably could be a few thousandths longer in free bore since i can fit 2.97 oal in mag. 180 berger is in lands at 2.94 and 165 gsmechanger is 2.88

Some impressive numbers from this case posted here.

It's because the external ballistics of the .308 Win cannot typically match those of the 6.5 Creedmoor using lead core bullets of optimal ballistic efficiency for each cartridge. If someone is willing to run stupidly hot loads in their .308 to juice the numbers up for that cartridge, the exact same thing can be done with the Creedmoor and then you're right back to the original difference between the two. There are always a few people that choose to push loads as hard as possible, even when it typically produces only a small amount of gain in resistance to wind deflection. Most competition shooters do not, because they have learned better.

Likewise, I know a number of .308 Win F-TR shooters that were lured by the extraordinary velocities possible with powders such as PP2000MR. After a brief stint that usually included blown primers during matches, unexpected vertical dispersion, and generally poor brass life, they all went back to using extruded single base powders such as Varget, N140, and N150 for match loads. That is because the behavior of these powders is far more reliable and predictable during the long strings of fire used in F-TR, and over the course of temperature changes that may be observed during a match, or on different days.

 

[Orr89rocz]

It's because the external ballistics of the .308 Win cannot typically match those of the 6.5 Creedmoor using lead core bullets of optimal ballistic efficiency for each cartridge. If someone is willing to run stupidly hot loads in their .308 to juice the numbers up for that cartridge, the exact same thing can be done with the Creedmoor and then you're right back to the original difference between the two. There are always a few people that choose to push loads as hard as possible, even when it typically produces only a small amount of gain in resistance to wind deflection. Most competition shooters do not, because they have learned better.

Likewise, I know a number of .308 Win F-TR shooters that were lured by the extraordinary velocities possible with powders such as PP2000MR. After a brief stint that usually included blown primers during matches, unexpected vertical dispersion, and generally poor brass life, they all went back to using extruded single base powders such as Varget, N140, and N150 for match loads. That is because the behavior of these powders is far more reliable and predictable during the long strings of fire used in F-TR, and over the course of temperature changes that may be observed during a match, or on different days.

Not disagreeing but comparing quoted velocity for handloads of 140 gr creedmoor in similar barrels seems like 2800-2850 is a good figure. And i wouldnt consider any of my 308 loads “stupidly” hot yet. Some of the above posted may be but dont seem to be to far out there. Using those values it seems the two are much closer way out there than factory load comparisons suggest. Thats where i was drawing my comparison.

For my purposes of long range steel and medium range hunting, i typically dont need to worry about temp swings too much, my final loads are always developed in same temps im expecting to hunt in. I also dont expect FTR level accuracy, just would like it to be pretty good and have relatively low ES. Velocity is nice when up against the limits of elevation adjustment in the optics, but if needed i’ll back down to a more accurate node if there is one. Need more data to see how this powder does but so far its ok.

 

[Ned Ludd]

FWIW - I was not referring to you specifically, or anyone else that has contributed to this thread. Just a general observation that there will occasionally be the individual that shows up to a match with very hot loads. Unnecessarily, IMO, because they rarely do all that well.

For the purpose of hunting and banging steel, there is no reason it shouldn't work for you. It's largely when shooting long strings of fire (25+ shots) and/or in regions where there are often large temperature swings that it becomes a problem. With respect to the comparison between the .308 Win and the 6.5 Creedmoor, I have observed the scores from both during F-Class matches for years. I mention this because F-Class shooters typically try to use the highest BC bullets that shoot reliably and load them close to MAX. Thus, it is a pretty decent comparison between the two cartridges when pushed reasonably hard. The 6.5 Creedmoor shooters usually require less windage and post the better scores. Of course, there are other differences between the two classes such as front rest vs bipod and rifle weight limits, but the right hands the 6.5 CM will typically outshoot the .308 Win.

Because we are always trying to push the envelope, competition shooters are almost always looking for some kind of edge over their competitors. As you noted, a powder that provided greater velocity might be one approach, as long as it did not introduce other undesirable effects such as increased ES/SD, poor brass life, etc. Another approach would be to use a higher BC bullet. To that end, myself and others have tried .30 cal monolithic copper solids, some of which have extremely high BCs as compared to comparable weight lead core bullets. In terms of wind deflection, they seem to perform as advertised. However, they also seem to generate unexplained vertical dispersion, such that when you are getting nickel and dimed to death from a dropped point here and another over there because of excessive vertical, it turns out the higher BC isn't really worth what you'd expect.

My point is that when you look at what people are using to win F-TR matches using .308 Win, it is rare that you find double base powders (with a possible exception or two for some of the newer coated powders), monolithic solids, or anything else that might be considered off the beaten path. That is largely because the people that are winning have tried pretty much everything out there at one point or another. They know from exhaustive testing what works reliably, and they stick to it. As a hunter and for banging steel targets, you can likely do things that may not work so well in matches and still obtain acceptable results, but you will need to do some testing yourself to build confidence in your chosen load. If you're liking the PP2000MR, my suggestion would be to determine velocity for a given charge weight across a reasonable temperature range. That way, you can adjust charge weight to maintain consistent velocity/pressure as needed for different conditions and/or seasons, and run less of a risk of experiencing the sometimes very abrupt transition to over-pressure conditions.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Yeah i shoot all year round but only get real serious in fall / winter. I need the foliage to die off where i shoot to see hits at 1400+. Too green for that now. Temps in the 30-50 range typically but we have had some 20 something mornings and next day hit 60’s so never know. But i know how my loads respond to it, atleast my 257 bob and 300 wsm. I’ll have this 308 figured shortly

 

[Ray123]

Not disagreeing but comparing quoted velocity for handloads of 140 gr creedmoor in similar barrels seems like 2800-2850 is a good figure. And i wouldnt consider any of my 308 loads “stupidly” hot yet. Some of the above posted may be but dont seem to be to far out there. Using those values it seems the two are much closer way out there than factory load comparisons suggest. Thats where i was drawing my comparison.

For my purposes of long range steel and medium range hunting, i typically dont need to worry about temp swings too much, my final loads are always developed in same temps im expecting to hunt in. I also dont expect FTR level accuracy, just would like it to be pretty good and have relatively low ES. Velocity is nice when up against the limits of elevation adjustment in the optics, but if needed i’ll back down to a more accurate node if there is one. Need more data to see how this powder does but so far its ok.

I shoot both 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 Win. In AR 10 and bolt guns. I have 2 Creedmoors and 7 308s at present. I pushed both to see what was possible... and settled on 147 eldm one 150 SMK with RL 26 in the Creedmoor to keep up with the 308 with 2000MR and 6.5 Staball for 225 ELDM and 230 gr Atip. The 308 set up properly will easily beat my Creedmoors in 140 class bullets with respect to trajectory, drift, and energy on target as far as the bullets will shoot. I needed to go to the 147 ELDM and 150 SMK with smokin RL 26 loads To keep up. Both are good cartridges, both can be out classed by big magnums. But set up properly for the 200 gr SMK .715 BC the 308 is no slouch. After setting up the 308 for what I thought was max performance possible for LR in that caliber, I don't shoot my Creedmoors much, they haven't been out in 2 years, just lost interest in that caliber, but added 2 more 308s to the collection. Anyone can build one or have one made on a chasis and premium 8 twist barrel for heavy bullets 200 SMK , 225 EDM, 230 Atip, velocities consist single S/D common and some down to 2.4 fps. Haven't tried the 250 Atip as that's a really big bullet I reserved for the 300RUM....but I did try the 250 Atip in the 300 Blackout 7 twist didn't appear to stabilize it very well in my 300 Blackout. But as for the 308 it can be greatly improved upon over the old standard 168 MK everyone always quotes and likes to compare it to any new cartridge, and cite it beats the 308. The 6.5 Creedmoor has many factory rifles set up for LR/ target ...you have to build the performance driven 308 8 or 9 twist long throated, short action single shot, or long action repeater, COAL 3.175" 200 SMK. .017 off lands, for mine I have 1 long action 30" repeater & 1 short action 22" 9 twist for hunting. 308 has great performance...over 3600 ft/ lb of muzzle energy and 1300 ft/lbs at 1000 yds and still over 1700 fps at 1000 ... is it for you? You'll have to decide...but it's there.

 

[Orr89rocz]

That is true mini magnum performance out of that little case. Very impressive. I will stick to my 300 wsm when i need more power and 200+ grain bc . Its only a 24” barrel and no brake so im only 2850-2860 with a 208 berger and tick slower with the 210 hunting vld. Its not as fun to shoot as the 308 tho. Considering threading that barrel

 

[XTR]

What we do in F-TR is generally not practical outside if the target range. In real terms what the 6.5 gives is a slightly flatter trajectory with a little less wind drift and a lot less recoil than what you get from a 308 trying to do the same thing. Depending on the shooting game you play the differences can be a little or significant. That said, the “awesome“ status of the 6.5 Creed as the flavor of the yr is a marketing success story, and saying the 308 has a bad rep tells one something of the crowd who says it. (I’m hunting this season with a 30-40 Krag in a falling block).

When it comes to 6.5’s, there are 3 nearly identical modern 6.5 short action chamberings out there that were all here 15 yrs ago. The original, the 260Rem (been around since the 90s), the 6.5x47 Lapua, and the 6.5 Creed. All three have virtually identical ballistics.

The Creed won the marketing game. Thus some of the sarcastic comments about the Creed from folks who watched the story be created. Personally I’ve recommended it before though I dont own one.

 

[Laurie]

Likewise, I know a number of .308 Win F-TR shooters that were lured by the extraordinary velocities possible with powders such as PP2000MR. After a brief stint that usually included blown primers during matches, unexpected vertical dispersion, and generally poor brass life, they all went back to using extruded single base powders such as Varget, N140, and N150 for match loads. That is because the behavior of these powders is far more reliable and predictable during the long strings of fire used in F-TR, and over the course of temperature changes that may be observed during a match, or on different days.

The UK 308 equivalent was 155s with Reload Swiss RS40 in SP Lapua brass - the canister version of a 5.56 62gn bullet propellant. Fantastic results when it worked, but too many blown primers and other problems on its off days. Non-FTR shooters refused to believe that 308 could produce the MVs without running at >70,000 psi chamber pressures. There are always one or two powders around that produce these results. RS40 unusually in this situation is an extruded type, but otherwise it's usually high-tech ball grades in this role. TBH, I can't think of any serious players in this and similar disciplines that use ball type powders - their long-term consistency across all conditions always seems to let them down. I know many US XTC 223 shooters use them because of ease and speed in the loading process (which is of course why many ammunition manufacturers prefer the type too), but 223 has a small case and targets are large by F standards.

 

[10at6]

50 grains of 2000 and a 155 Scenar is and elk killing wonder load in my Kimber.

 

[captben]

My 24 inch Remington 5r 308 shoots 2625fps with a 208 Amax behind MR 2000.
No pressure signs with lapua brass.

DRT on deer and Nilgai in Texas.
NILGAI Weigh over 600lbs

 

[XTR]

It makes a good hunting powder in my opinion, just not consistent enough for F class