308 resizing measurements

[260AckImp]

The more I'm looking into this I'm leaning towards a custom reamer.

Would it be wise maybe move the shoulder diameter from 0.4551" to 0.4541"? And then ill make the base 0.470" which will work with my small base die just nicely.

Does anyone know the ruling as far as changes to a 308 Win chamber to qualify for FTR? Sorry for all the questions, I'm quite new to this

 

[Acyr]

The more I'm looking into this I'm leaning towards a custom reamer.

Would it be wise maybe move the shoulder diameter from 0.4551" to 0.4541"? And then ill make the base 0.470" which will work with my small base die just nicely.

Does anyone know the ruling as far as changes to a 308 Win chamber to qualify for FTR? Sorry for all the questions, I'm quite new to this

F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) - A rifle limited to .223 Remington or .308 Winchester or their commercial and/or metrification equivalents. Chamber dimensions must not exceed the maximum SAAMI or CIP specifications. Bore, groove, and throat dimensions may be selected to suit bullets used. There is no restriction on bullet weight.

 

[260AckImp]

F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) - A rifle limited to .223 Remington or .308 Winchester or their commercial and/or metrification equivalents. Chamber dimensions must not exceed the maximum SAAMI or CIP specifications. Bore, groove, and throat dimensions may be selected to suit bullets used. There is no restriction on bullet weight.

Thank you, ill check out the SAAMI specs

 

[260AckImp]

So going by the SAAMI drawing im unable to reduce the shoulder diameter to 0.4541"? Because its smaller than the minimum chamber of 0.4551"
Or am I reading this wrong?

 

[Acyr]

You can go smaller but not bigger thus increasing case capacity.

 

[260AckImp]

You can go smaller but not bigger thus increasing case capacity.

Oh yes sorry I was reading the cartridge diagram back to front.

Does anyone run a chamber with a 0.4541" shoulder?

 

[memilanuk]

Not that I know of.

The general idea is to not make the cartridge case bigger, increasing capacity / volume and thereby velocity, not to limit accuracy (tighter dimensions / tolerances).

If you ever get around to competing in international matches, particularly ones where ICFRA is involved... they sometimes have a 'thing' about FTR chambers being too *small*. Like they believe someone is going to pick up a random live round off the ground and stick it in their match chamber. For the 2017 FCWC they implemented checking chambers with steel plugs (gauges). So it might not be a great idea to stray too far outside the norm as far as chambers. In my experience getting too close to one extreme or the other is asking for trouble.

If you only want to shoot domestically in the US of A, then you can pretty much disregard all of the above. Match directors here barely check rifle weights, much less chambers.

 

[D-4297]

In talking with Phil Gross at Manson ; the reasoning for the extra length at the front was to allow 185 Juggernauts and 200 Hybrid and 200.20x , and longer bullets to be loaded longer than standard length . The 2013 FTR Reamer is made for precision , single - load F-TR Chambers . I currently have one on the way and looking forward to cutting the two Blanks waiting in my closet .

As far as Dies go ; The OP should check some freshly fired Brass from his chamber , and if it is nearing the high end of Dimensions on the Diameters , he should consider a New barrel , before ordering , or purchasing a custom Die from anyone . If the Diameters are in good staid , then I would suggest a Standard Type "S" , Full Length Bushing Die , and the appropriate bushings . Along with a Sinclair Mandrel Die , and properly sized mandrels . This will get him on the way to where he wants to go , and other custom equipment can be purchased as knowledge of the entire process increases .

 

[Dolomite]

Sounds about right depending on your brass. I sent 3 fired cases to Whidden to make a custom die. He also makes dies based off reamer prints but prefers 3-4x the fired cases. Whatever you chamber size is the custom die will size the case body down about .001 CSJ and base.

I would get a reamer with a base that measures .471 or larger or a standard off the shelf die may not size the base small enough to prevent clickers. talk about hitting or smacking the bolt open just rocks the gun which creates excess movement.

Just confirming you are going to use Lapua Brass right?

Peterson and Alpha have slight different measurements but good brass none the less. Ask Manson what brass can be used in their reamer?

Or call JGS and ask for their reamer print, maybe their dimensions are different. They due hold tighter tolerances on the reamers at .0005+

 

[260AckImp]

Sounds about right depending on your brass. I sent 3 fired cases to Whidden to make a custom die. He also makes dies based off reamer prints but prefers 3-4x the fired cases. Whatever you chamber size is the custom die will size the case body down about .001 CSJ and base.

I would get a reamer with a base that measures .471 or larger or a standard off the shelf die may not size the base small enough to prevent clickers. talk about hitting or smacking the bolt open just rocks the gun which creates excess movement.

Just confirming you are going to use Lapua Brass right?

Peterson and Alpha have slight different measurements but good brass none the less. Ask Manson what brass can be used in their reamer?

Or call JGS and ask for their reamer print, maybe their dimensions are different. They due hold tighter tolerances on the reamers at .0005+

I have found a standard Redding Type S 308 fls die and I'm thinking now ill go a custom reamer, leave the CSJ at 0.4551" and make the 200 line 0.4714" like the SAAMI print stated and then I should be right. Going to get ahold of the Redding die first and size a few test cases just to check what it sizes the 200 to. Is there any disadvantage to having a larger 200 line in your chamber? Does it affect case life/primer pockets?

 

[Dolomite]

So each brand of brass and lot brass reacts differently but should size the same within each brand. No issues with loose primer pockets using Lapua LRP, you’ll get better brass life with Lapua Palma 308 brass or even Peterson. Never tried alpha ocd but I hear it’s thicker brass. Sound like you will be running hotter loads so the SRP brass should las longer. If you anneal that will help the brass last longer. Try a Whidden off the shelf die, sizes the base a tad smaller and around .002 in the CSJ. Give Whidden a call and they can help you, send him the reamer print and ask him if his off the shelf die will work.

Tell Manson you want a reamer that will not produce clickers and see what they say. For the price of the Redding I would just spend a little more and get the Whidden if have the money.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I have found a standard Redding Type S 308 fls die and I'm thinking now ill go a custom reamer, leave the CSJ at 0.4551" and make the 200 line 0.4714" like the SAAMI print stated and then I should be right. Going to get ahold of the Redding die first and size a few test cases just to check what it sizes the 200 to. Is there any disadvantage to having a larger 200 line in your chamber? Does it affect case life/primer pockets?

I have used Redding Type S Match dies exclusively with all of my .223 Rem and .308 Win F-TR rifles. I have always used the exact same [fairly standard] "no-turn" neck chambers for each, only changing lead/freebore dimensions as necessary to load a given bullet. In my opinion, it is not necessary with the two F-TR cartridges to go overboard with custom chamber dimensions in rifles chambered for either of these two cartridges for use in F-TR. Using [fairly standard] no-turn chambers, I have never had any issues developing loads for these rifles that can reliably shoot quarter MOA groups at 100 yds. That level of precision is more capable of winning matches at 600 to 1000 yd as long as I don't do anything stupid and point the gun in the right direction for what the wind is doing at the moment. I have never lost a match because of my rifle setup, and only rarely because I failed to get the load right. When I don't perform well, it's because I failed to read the conditions, or did something stupid, like cross-firing.

My point is simply that as a new F-TR shooter, a reasonable rifle setup is not likely to be the limiting factor in your game for some period of time (perhaps ever depending on what you purchase). Likewise, the finest and most expensive rifle setup on the planet is unlikely to allow a brand new F-TR shooter to win matches until they develop solid wind-reading skills. Good or bad, this is simply how it is. Failing to properly read the conditions is by far the limiting factor in F-TR competition. Although I would certainly advise any new F-TR shooter to purchase the best equipment they can reasonably afford, I wouldn't advise going to extreme lengths with a custom chamber/reamer design (i.e. "tight"). It just isn't going to be that critical, especially while a new F-TR shooter is learning the game. A call to JGS or Manson should be sufficient to get the ball rolling, they're both very good. I would suggest the US F-TR reamer that cuts 0.170" freebore and is optimized for the Berger 200.20X bullet, but will also work with bullets in the 185 to 200 gr range. Poor primer pocket life and/or "clickers" are typically not an issue with standard .308 Win chambers using small rifle primer brass, so small base dies are generally unnecessary. Further, you will have the ability to change anything you want in the chamber specs every time you re-barrel the rifle, which can occur frequently if you compete often (typical F-TR barrel life may be as low as 2500-3000 rounds). It's good that you're thinking about all these things, but I wouldn't go too far overboard at this point. The US F-TR has an excellent track record of success and should be the "easy button" for anyone wishing to compete in F-TR.

F-T/R Reamer Spec Review/Confirmation

Hey Guys, Speced a reamer a while ago, and dropped the rifle off for build yesterday. For whatever reason I'm second guessing my own decision on reamer design, and wanted to double check on here before the smith made any cuts on my blank. Ideally setting this up for Berger 200.20Xs with...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[260AckImp]

I have used Redding Type S Match dies exclusively with all of my .223 Rem and .308 Win F-TR rifles. I have always used the exact same [fairly standard] "no-turn" neck chambers for each, only changing lead/freebore dimensions as necessary to load a given bullet. In my opinion, it is not necessary with the two F-TR cartridges to go overboard with custom chamber dimensions in rifles chambered for either of these two cartridges for use in F-TR. Using [fairly standard] no-turn chambers, I have never had any issues developing loads for these rifles that can reliably shoot quarter MOA groups at 100 yds. That level of precision is more capable of winning matches at 600 to 1000 yd as long as I don't do anything stupid and point the gun in the right direction for what the wind is doing at the moment. I have never lost a match because of my rifle setup, and only rarely because I failed to get the load right. When I don't perform well, it's because I failed to read the conditions, or did something stupid, like cross-firing.

My point is simply that as a new F-TR shooter, a reasonable rifle setup is not likely to be the limiting factor in your game for some period of time (perhaps ever depending on what you purchase). Likewise, the finest and most expensive rifle setup on the planet is unlikely to allow a brand new F-TR shooter to win matches until they develop solid wind-reading skills. Good or bad, this is simply how it is. Failing to properly read the conditions is by far the limiting factor in F-TR competition. Although I would certainly advise any new F-TR shooter to purchase the best equipment they can reasonably afford, I wouldn't advise going to extreme lengths with a custom chamber/reamer design (i.e. "tight"). It just isn't going to be that critical, especially while a new F-TR shooter is learning the game. A call to JGS or Manson should be sufficient to get the ball rolling, they're both very good. I would suggest the US F-TR reamer that cuts 0.170" freebore and is optimized for the Berger 200.20X bullet, but will also work with bullets in the 185 to 200 gr range. Poor primer pocket life and/or "clickers" are typically not an issue with standard .308 Win chambers using small rifle primer brass, so small base dies are generally unnecessary. Further, you will have the ability to change anything you want in the chamber specs every time you re-barrel the rifle, which can occur frequently if you compete often (typical F-TR barrel life may be as low as 2500-3000 rounds). It's good that you're thinking about all these things, but I wouldn't go too far overboard at this point. The US F-TR has an excellent track record of success and should be the "easy button" for anyone wishing to compete in F-TR.

F-T/R Reamer Spec Review/Confirmation

Hey Guys, Speced a reamer a while ago, and dropped the rifle off for build yesterday. For whatever reason I'm second guessing my own decision on reamer design, and wanted to double check on here before the smith made any cuts on my blank. Ideally setting this up for Berger 200.20Xs with...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Thank you for your reply, definitely helps put things into perspective for me. Im going to go with the 2013 FTR Team reamer from Mansons, whats even better is they have them waiting on the shelf so its ready to go with minimal wait time.

Thanks to everyone who chipped in with information, its been greatly appreciated and Im sure its going to help my FTR journey.

 

[D-4297]

Ned covered it with a blanket , as He always does . One of the reasons this site is considered to be the best for shooting sports , is because there are so many Top people here that give solid information that isn't conjecture or "I think" , but proven on the firing line .

 

[260AckImp]

Hey guys, just got a quick question regarding the Manson FTR print. It has a dia tolerance of +.001"/-.000"

So lets take the 200 line measurement of 0.4708" does that mean it will cut a minimum of 0.4708" or a maximum of 0.4718"?

 

[D-4297]

That is exactly what it means when "reading" what the parameters are on the print . Reality is anything within those High / Low parameters . .4708 is the minimum and .4718 is the maximum diameter the reamer will cut . Theoretically , if the reamer is mounted correctly , in the proper tooling .

 

[260AckImp]

That is exactly what it means when "reading" what the parameters are on the print . Reality is anything within those High / Low parameters . .4708 is the minimum and .4718 is the maximum diameter the reamer will cut . Theoretically , if the reamer is mounted correctly , in the proper tooling .

Thank you for the reply, good to know