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.308 Improved - to be or not to be...

miningshawn

miningshawn

Having just trimmed about a million, (ok, just 1000 - but it felt like a million), 308 cases I am seriously considering a .308AI, .308 Davis, or some other variant. If I do I will load 5 dummies and send 'em to Kiff at PT&G to be set up for a Berger 185 Juggernaut at an acceptable length and have a custom reamer cut.

Talk me into or out of this madness.

I realize that .308 standard courses of fire would be off the table and I would be in open class. I also realize I am not getting huge gains in velocity. I have 2500 pieces of brass and do not relish the thought of trimming for the rest of my days. I would also like to keep headstamps somewhat close, I have never felt super-comfortable using .308 headstamps in a .264 or .243 caliber - just a personal preference.

Thoughts or advice? If it works in a bolt action I may do it again in an AR-10. Are there other wildcats that I am missing out on or has anyone else tinkered with an improved .308?
 
calgarycanada said:
Imagine fire forming 2500 pieces!
Click to expand...
That's what burned out barrels are for. If I were him I'd have an old 308 barrel chambered with the new one for fire forming.
I formed 200 6.5wsm rounds this weekend between letting my other rifles cool.
 
Here are some thoughts. 1.) You are correct, you will be in F-Open and at a GREAT disadvantage compared to the 7s and the .300WSMs; 2.) You are also correct in that your velocity gains will be minimal. That is why you will be at the disadvantage; 3.) I have shot many, many "Ackleyizied" cartridges. In most cases, you make an Ackley out of something to make a better case design, not necessarily to gain additional velocity; 4.) As long as you are going to go to such lengths, why not go in the direction of something that will NOT be at a distinct disadvantage? Go to a .300WSM or a 7SAUM or 7SAUM improved or something in that realm where you will be at a distinct ADVANTAGE! Just my 2 cents..
 
ShootDots said:
Here are some thoughts. 1.) You are correct, you will be in F-Open and at a GREAT disadvantage compared to the 7s and the .300WSMs; 2.) You are also correct in that your velocity gains will be minimal. That is why you will be at the disadvantage; 3.) I have shot many, many "Ackleyizied" cartridges. In most cases, you make an Ackley out of something to make a better case design, not necessarily to gain additional velocity; 4.) As long as you are going to go to such lengths, why not go in the direction of something that will NOT be at a distinct disadvantage? Go to a .300WSM or a 7SAUM or 7SAUM improved or something in that realm where you will be at a distinct ADVANTAGE! Just my 2 cents..
Click to expand...

All great considerations, thanks! I am thinking about it for longer brass life, less case prep, Ackley's tend to have an easier-to-achieve ES and SD IMO and in my limited experience; but, I don't want to change bolt faces (or even touch the action in this case), just rebarrel. Looking at 30 caliber variants.
 
miningshawn said:
All great considerations, thanks! I am thinking about it for longer brass life, less case prep, Ackley's tend to have an easier-to-achieve ES and SD IMO and in my limited experience; but, I don't want to change bolt faces (or even touch the action in this case), just rebarrel. Looking at 30 caliber variants.
Click to expand...

Neck them down to .260 or .284 then blow the shoulder out.. Way better Fclass cartridge. You only need to do couple hundred at a time.
 
I don’t understand your trimming issue I trim 308 brass maybe once in it’s lifetime.

some things to look at first what is your reamer print. most 308 reamers the neck is either 2.025 or 2.045 you’ll never reach the end of the neck with stretch trimming them 2.002 is a rather silly undertaking that someone started at some point in history and everyone does today. I can’t think of a single good reason to make a 308 Ackley. The gains are minimal and it eliminate you from any 308 competition.

For reference I fired over 2000 rounds in competition last year I ordered 4000 bullets and 1000 more cases for this year shooting F-TR

If you absolutely must trim get a Giraud in your life will change, you can trim 100 cases in about 10 minutes
 
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Personally, my fire forming loads to ackley are just as accurate as 1st firing on any virgin brand of brass of parent cartridge.
It's not like your blowing out to dasher.

Up to you to decide if the minimal gains justify the cost of custom dies and reamer for a single shot bolt gun.
Not sure about feeding in a repeater. I would think Magazine could be adjusted though.
 
I'm curious as to your trimming methods; doing this by hand, or would a Tracey, Girard, WFT speed the process up?

-Mac
 
I recently got a Frankford Armory trimmer, and it's changed my life. Can often be found on sale for ~$150 (right now at Brownells for $180-10%=$162).
It's this model: https://www.brownells.com/reloading...inum-series-rotary-tumbler-7l-prod122117.aspx

As far as the case is concerned, how about going Dasher style. Leave the minimum amount of neck you can get away with and move that 40* shoulder way forward. See how much capacity you can get out of a .308 parent case. I mean, if you're just having fun with it. . .
 
Even if you did it for the brass reasons youll be disappointed as it wont help as much as youve been led to believe. And the es does not necessarily get better just because it has a sharp shoulder- probably going to be the opposite actually.
 
Stick with your 308 and buy a Giraud trimmer. 1-1.5 seconds a piece to trim your brass, and you are staying with a cartridge you know, and are still shooting in a class that you are competitive.

Lloyd
 
For me I would run the 308. I trim with a Forster power case trimmer and the 3-way cutter, in my drill press. I can do 600 in an hour and they are in/outside chamfered.
 
It’s funny that you rarely hear about .308 AIs being used for any purpose. Is there a reason? Maybe the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. I’d look into it before committing. Like figure out what you expect to gain, and whether or not it’s realistic or worth the effort. My guess is no. .308 ballistics from a case that size are nothing special and if velocity is what you want, there are better .30 caliber options.
 
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