308 100 yard ladder test

[CaptJim]

Rock Creek .308 update:
Went back to the range to shoot the 155 Lapuas with the 43.0gr load and bracket .1gr below and above, this time at 200 yds. Couldn't use my chronograph from the elevated bench. The gun seems to like this bullet and load.The weak link here is me.

 

[chop house]

here is a 10 shot ladder over 2.4 grains powder at 100 yards. shows a 1" change in poi over 215 fps velocity delta.

(happens to be 6br, lt-32, speer 70 tnt, 24" bbl.)

small sample ES=16 fps, SD = 7 fps ; ES = 0.17", SD = 0.07". after i calc'd these numbers i got less enthusiastic about the 28.33 data. as you see the poi step increase is on the order of the expected vertical dispersion.

 

[kiwijohn]

This doesn't make sense to me. With 0.1 grain increments you have a wide dispersion and no decent information to show a wide accuracy node. If the 4 shot group at 43 grains is a .25 Moa group then why is the 42.9 group and the 43.1 grain group so much worse. I would talk to someone at your range if possible.
Otherwise your present load development is just white noise.
There seems to be more going on, vertical dispersion indicates velocity variables (maybe charge weight or neck tension differences.) The two groups on the right both show reasonable small vertical differences although they are different bullet weights? While the left hand set are like more than double. In height variance. Once you are testing beyond 100yd wind conditions come in to play so if the shooting was conducted at 200 yds that can account for the horizontal drift as shown by the rhs groups.

 

[Rat Rifle]

Use three shot groups for each powder load to help distinguish a good starting load. Stay on those 2 concrete benches those wood ones at riviana are pretty wobbly.

And every where else there are wooden benches

But, if it’s a place to shoot, can’t knock it too bad.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I have no faith in 1 shot groups or testing.

 

[spitfire_er]

Looks like you are getting it close. I don't typically do ladders at short range. OCW with 3 shots per charge in .3 gr increments. If two don't touch, move on and won't shoot the third. Pretty quick way to start fine tuning. With a chrony and 15-21 shots I can usually find a sweet spot and go from there.

I haven't read Erik's article, but I can see what you are trying to accomplish here. Always handy to have another tool in the toolbox. At this range, I don't think you are going to get to the desired outcome any quicker. With ether method, you'll end up shooting about the same amount of shots. Behind a chrony helps move things along too.

 

[Ccrider]

My two cents worth. Ask yourself how serious you are about reloading and shooting small groups. If your answer is very serious, I suggest you start over and follow the steps used by the successful shooters that share information on this site.

Look up Tony Boyer and the “Boyer Method.” Follow it to develop your loads. It gives you information that you can make educated adjustments from and get educated advice about. Look at @BartsBullets post. Read them all. Pay attention to how he test at 100. Several others on this site are setting records or have set them in the past. @dmoran comes to mind right off. @tom @jackieschmidt @gunsandgunsmithing etc. Look at what some of these guys do in developing their loads. Do what they do.

Spend some time reading the “load development at 100 yards” thread. It is long, but some of it is worthwhile reading. Then develop a plan and execute it, step by step. Adjust one thing at a time and study the changes. Also, do not expect instant or overnight success. It’s not like you are going through the drive through at McDonalds.

Like most things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. You may stumble into a good load. But you don’t gain much that is reusable or repeatable.

Or, continue with your approach. Sort of like buying a lottery ticket. You put some in and if you are lucky, get a great return. But it is not reasonable to expect a great return and you want likely hit it twice.

 

[RegionRat]

@CaptJim , We realize you are new to all this and that you don't have ready access to distance.

You, your rifle, and the components you are using all have great potential. It would be best if you were to get a mentor at the clubs near you that shoot competition. You will climb faster and waste less time and resource.

However, the mechanics of the two different load development methods being discussed in the thread seem unclear in terms of how you organize and shoot them, versus what you have been doing.

Ccrider is giving you good advice. If you are going to do this on your own, do that homework.

If you search for Boyer, OCW Method, and Audette Ladder, you should get this all cleared up. The test methods are very different both in terms of the way they are shot but also in terms of the best distance used for each type to make interpretation easier at the end.

When trying to wring out the best potential in a load/rifle, there is no test or method that will allow for sloppy shooting. Even putting the rifle in a sled doesn't let you off the hook for watching the wind or carefully resetting the test when the rifle jumps. You become part of the gun and the results.

The main problem with inexperienced shooters trying to run before they can walk is what I will call the signal to noise ratio in the results. It takes most rookies about half a barrel life to learn to call their shots on the bench and become sensitive enough to have the discipline to shoot an entire test without regrets or "called flyers".

Many of the folks on here forget that they worked those problems out when they were little kids and by the time they were doing load development they were pretty good at driving the gun and watching conditions. They may have gone through a smallbore program in school or scouts, or shot airgun for years before they took on load development, highpower competition, or group shooting.

Nothing wrong with what you have been doing in other ways since it is all part of your loading and shooting learning curve. My comments are meant to encourage you to get a mentor, do your homework as you go, and to have fun and not get discouraged when this looks confusing. You will gain experience before you get solid reliable results. Good Luck.

 

[big5ifty]

Rock Creek .308 update:
Went back to the range to shoot the 155 Lapuas with the 43.0gr load and bracket .1gr below and above, this time at 200 yds. Couldn't use my chronograph from the elevated bench. The gun seems to like this bullet and load.The weak link here is me.
View attachment 1431010

That looks along the lines of an OCW test.

If that 40.0 was between a 39.6 and a 40.4 with those group patterns, it would be something to be really excited about.

 

[CaptJim]

Thank you all for your guidance. It has become clear to me that with the limited time and resources I have available I have stepped into the deep end of the pool and am still dog paddling with this type of shooting.

When in NC I had access to a 600+ yd range and could hit the LaRue popper at 640 on a regular basis with an AR. This of course is not nearly as precise but satisfying though, when you see it go down.

I think I will abandon this 30 cal project and trying for the Nth degree of accuracy.

 

[RegionRat]

I think I will abandon this 30 cal project and trying for the Nth degree of accuracy.

If I were you, I would make a call to just relax and go with the flow. A 308 is a decent platform for learning to shoot and load because it has well understood expectations of performance.

You can use it to learn a lot about shooting, loading, and yourself too.

If you want to end up shooting small groups at 600 to 1000 yards, you have to be methodical and tenacious.

You can have lots of fun banging steel without ever going down a rabbit hole, so give yourself a chance to get the hang of things before you give up. Go visit a match with the kind of shooting you think you would like to participate with and then decide. You may see what is possible in person and meet folks who will adopt you and bring you into the fold with far less frustration.

Either way, it is okay to feel challenged if the return for it is a sense of accomplishment. If you know you don't want to spend the effort, then just have fun.

 

[Ccrider]

@RegionRat is spot on. If you are enjoying it, why quit. Just work with what you have to get it to shooting to your satisfaction. You will get plenty of good feedback and direction from the people on here. My post was only to give you some ideas about how to dive into the rabbit hole and have an enjoyable trip down.

It’s ok to stand right on the edge and watch everyone else fall.

 

[dusterdave173]

Less than 1/2" dispersion from 40.8 to 44.0 gr?

I am used to 223 where .2 makes a diff--I started shooting 30-06 and my first test was very very close FPS over a 3 g spread I guess percentage of error is so much larger--my first conclusion was man I can load 30-06 with lee dippers and be OK ----so that dispersion was no surprise at all