303 British reloading

[Curmudgeon]

Hello, I am about to reload a 1947 Brit in 303 and am looking for place to talk about this with other 303 shooters. Is there a particular forum or is it part of general reloading? thanks Oh and don't forget about the NBRSA match at OVGC May 15.

 

[KevinThomas]

Good a place as any! You have a variety of bullets available for the 303 Brit, as well as a host of powders that are very well suited. Which combination are you looking at using here?

 

[Curmudgeon]

Hello, thanks for the reply. I just finished registering for the Vintage sniper Match this fall. I want to shoot a mid size bullet maybe 174 Sierra. I use H-4350 and wonder if this is place to start. I load -06 and 308 so have some idea about this general area. The rifle appears to have come from a modification program to create a "sniper" rifle. It has a model 32 Mark 1 scope. We will shoot at 3 and 600 yards from rest[sandbag]. Would like comfortable load since metal buttplate is in use. I fired the rifle and noticed a mark on the case body. Have read this is common with 303's. Have you heard about Map Tape to center case in chamber. This case might lend itself to neck sizing only. Anyway would you have any suggestions?

 

[wvuredneck09]

I have some older 303 Remington ammo for sale if you'd like some for the brass, pm me if interested.

 

[1000yardstare]

Ah yes, the .303 Smelly. Brings back a lot of memories from my University days in the 1960s. War surplus SMLEs flooded into Canada. Bought one in good shape for C$25, about 8 pounds Stirling at the time I would imagine. Now they are a collector`s item??

If I remember correctly the steel butt plate at the rear end was more dangerous than the bullet coming out the front end. The cheap war surplus hard ball ammo being shot through telephone poles was the major reason for a ban on calibers over .270 being used for hunting in southern Ontario.

We have Museum Rifle in our Ontario Rifle Assoc. in which the participants must wear a uniform that matches their vintage rifle. They go crashing around at night on an Army base having a great old time. Not for the faint of heart to have a swarm of Brit, Nazi and Yankee combatants come swarming at you through the underbrush.

But I digress...........the Hodgdon reloading web site has a section on the .303 British including the 174 gr bullet and H4350 which bye the bye is one of my favourite powders in many cartridges. Check out Hodgdon at
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

 

[nitro-express]

this site is good and you can try http://303british.com/

my favourite, back when I was starting shooting, was with a Hornady 150 grain spitzer backed by 39 or 40 grains of 3031. Some may argue that their guns only shoot 174's etc. but it was my belief that for the world of shooting a 303 to be right you should use a cordite equivalent load. 3031 is one of the few powders that you can use in the old ones (British NE and such) to create a load that will regulate. This load is not the fastest nor the most powerfull but it will usually work decently in any 303, no matter how worn out. My 0.02$ worth on the subject.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I will check those sites, thanks. Was on the Numerich site earlier and saw 303 ammo that was Kynoch and cordite based, dare I fire this? I ordered Ian Skennerton's book on this rifle so reloading dies book and brass should arrive next week. Bought some modern ammo to shoot this Sunday so will have more about how it shoots by next week

 

[jonbearman]

Ah Ian Skennerton,I met him some years ago,he is quite a character and knows british rifles like no other man.I have a almost never fired no1 mark4 from canada and it shoots ragged holes when I could see better.What a nice rifle.I also have a no2 mark3 from Ireland in the grease wrap.

 

[GarethMarijt]

Not a forum, rather than an on-line magazine, http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/index.html

Has some very knowledgeable articles on .303 in some of the back issues.

I tend to use Prvi Partizan ammo in mine

Gareth

 

[Laurie]

You'll likely find 4350 rather bulky depending on your chamber and case wall thickness - when I tried it years ago I couldn't get Speer's starting load into the case.

Here in the UK where 303s are not exactly uncommon, Viht N140 is the norm with a 174gn bullet. Start at around 38gn and work up to 41gn maybe a little higher using the lowest charge weight that gives good accuracy as case life is short due to stretching and separation with the rather (very!) flexible rear locking action. Likewise, either neck size or set your FL die to keep the case shoulders forward with small chamber clearances. Most military 303 chambers are ridiculously 'roomy' up front and the rifle / cartridge get away with it due to the rimmed case and headspace being on the rim not shoulder. This wasn't bad engineering, rather deliberate policy to allow slightly damaged, or dirty, or poor quality wartime ammo to chamber reliably. You sometimes find fired cases almost look 'improved' there is so much shoulder / upper body expansion and the neck will be visibly shorter after firing. One SMLE I owned produced fired cases that after neck sizing wouldn't fit the seater die such was the case expansion!

Ken Waters in his pet loads features on the cartridge recommended using US .30-40 brass rather than .303 as it provided a better fit, was stronger and lasted far longer. The cases are very similar - just FL size .30-40 and trim back to the slightly shorter .303B length. Never tried it as .30-40 brass is really rare in the UK.

Nitro-Express's 3031 recommendation is a good one. This powder is really well suited to the cartridge. Not used much here as it's only occasionally been available. Another good choice is H4895.

The cartridge works happily with bullet weights from 123 to 215gn. Most people use the 174 because the sights are regulated for a 174gn flat base spitzer at a nominal 2,440 fps MV (but not achieved very often in the average military rifle in typical used condition) and also because Sierra's 174gn MK is usually a very good performer in this cartridge.

Enjoy .... but keep a close look out for incipient case separations. Anything approaching maximum pressure loads (c. 45,000 psi) sees cases succumb quickly. Loading for the Mauser system P'14 .303" is another matter entirely, likewise the Ross MkIII straight-pull with their tight front locking actions, although they still have the Lee-Enfield's roomy chambers. You don't say which factory made the rifle. The Long Branch (Ottowa) examples seem to have used a better chamber reamer than the British factories. Can't comment on Savage, Chicopee Falls. If yours is dated 1947 it copuld either be post WW2 production, or if you see the letters 'FTR' it means it's earlier manufacture and 1947 is when it was given a Factory Thorough Rebuild, usually by Royal Ordnance Factory Fazakerly in north west England. This would have involved a complete rebuild often just retaining the receiver and bolt with an upgrade to the improved Mk1/2 trigger hanger system, new barrel and pre-war micro-click sights installed in place of the simple wartime two-range flip-over aperture. Conversely, many wartime Long Branch and Savage models with cheapo 2-groove barrel models and simple sights seem to have survived intact, but with 1947 on yours that more or less rules them out. When you get Skennerton's book you'll be able to trace at least some of your rifle's ancestry.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[Curmudgeon]

It is difficult to trace the info from the stamps on the rifle. I wrote incorrectly regarding 1947. The stamp reads M47c then England 1943. To get the bolt out I have to remove the scope and lift a micrometer sight. Elevation on the rear sight adjusts with a knurled knob. I read the bolt face can be unscrewed and changed in 3 ascending increments. This change affects cartridge fit. One shooter mentioned using something called Map Tape around base to center cartridge before first firing and then neck size only. The Hogdon info parallels your info about H4350 as the upper velocities are only reached with a compressed load. I did read about a "match" load with Reloader 15 and the Sierra 174. I have some info now for IMR 4320 Rel 15 and Win 760 so I have much testing to do. I don't usually chronograph during case forming but this case seems to grow so much it will be good to know how much original velocities change when working with formed cases. The turret on the scope is an early form of ballistic tech. The dial makes one rotation with increments of 1 to 10. The zeroing is done with a complicated tool that might have needed 2 people for correct adjustment. Finding parts will become a quest. I appreciate all the info. Now what I thought would be a "get it shoot it" is becoming another workup for best performance. Oh well, that's why we do it. Talked to friend today and he just got a 30-40 Krag so I will nick a few cases and try the 303 sizing suggestion, thanks

 

[Curmudgeon]

Here is an update to the 303 Range Day. Took some Prvi 180 FMJ and Rem round nose 180 to test and have for shot case measurements. Got zero for rifle, dial reads 4.5. Shot a 2 moa group trying to figure out sight picture with the post. It is an interesting reticle having a wire horizontal line and a post with a somewhat pointy top. I explain like this since it isn't rounded or a point. Also different in that I could see the post and level line move when I turned the dial. Chronographed the ammo, just 1 round of each and got a spread of 1 between the two boxes. 2384 and 2383 fps. Shoulder on cases moved .020 from new. I was able to shoot to 700 yards with the dial and it had a good return to zero when I came back to 100 yards. Recoil was more of a push than a slap. Stock has an S on it which might indicate short. For me this worked since it is necessary to shoot with eye close to the scope. The scope has a shade on the ocular but it couldn't be used because of proximity to eye. Most pictures I see of this scope have the shade removed probably to avoid crescent on eyebrow. It was necessary to remove the scope to clean the rifle but after replacing and checking zero it was close enough to call zeroed. Hit gongs and plates at various ranges so waiting for FEDEX so I can start reloading. Didn't have enough ammo to understand scope but post looks about 2 to 3 minutes wide at 100 yards. The horizontal wire it to help level the scope but since the post extends above the line there might be a holdover and holdunder after learning the scope. I will continue when I have some reload info.