300yd practice for 1000yd competition

[queen_stick]

This is one of those years, where I don't have time to make it to a match. So far, it looks like I might make it to one match. If I'm lucky I might get to two or three (not likely though)

I live very close to a 300yd range, so I can find time to get some practice in... that's not a problem. However, the closest 1000yd range is 3.5hrs + drive ONE WAY.

My primary question... what cartridger/bullet combo should I use at 300 yds to mimic that of a 1000yds? To answer that question, you need to know what I'm using at 1000yds... Right now, and for the foreseeable future, I'm using a standard 6mmBR with 105gr bullets, pushed at 2925fps. I've won some relays with this gun, so I know the rig is up to par. It's usually a bad wind call that knocks me out of the running (sometimes my loads aren't' dialed in, and I get vertical all over the place (that's from lack of practice/inexperience)

Anyway, I was thinking about building a 223rem to shoot some lower BC match grade bullets, with the intention of learning to read wind, and call it correctly every time (or damn close to it!). The primary reason for the proposed cartridge selection is the cheap component cost, and lower BC bullets. I want something that gets pushed quite a bit, so that my wind calling matters (If I make a mistake, I want to see it. If I call it right, I want to see it... and I want to clearly see it, so that I can learn from it.). A slight miss on wind speed or direction at 1000yds is a big deal. I want something that can closely duplicate that at 300 yds.

what do you guys think? Continue to practice at 300yds with the 6br, or build a small cal. rifle (20vt, 223, etc..) to amplify the 300 yd conditions?

I've heard that a 22lr at 200yds is great practice for 1000yd shooting, and I don't doubt that. However, I'd like a centerfire cartridge, so I can keep up with my reloading skills as well (Also critical for 1K shooting).

As always, I appreciate any advice,

Walt

Edit: I guess it would help to tell you what discipline I'm shooting... 1k yd BR

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Walt,

I've experimented with that as well. To match your drift @ 1k, I'd suggest a 40 grain HP (I'm playing with some Sierras). It has to be launched pretty slow (3500 or less), but it is doable. I haven't had time to design a load, but I'm going to HBN coat the bullets to reduce the velocity and keep the load density up.

If you come up with anything in the mean time, I'd love to hear what you are using.

 

[LongRanger]

Many thanks for bringing up this topic!

May be a good staring point to refer to some ballistic tables first. Check the tables for the 1000y terminal speed, drop and drift info for your current load. Using that data as a reference point, play back and forth in the tables with different bullets at different speeds to derive a load that would give similar results at 300y with your bullet/powder of choice. Then it will be just a matter of selecting a cartridge for the job....maybe a 222 Rem with its inherent accuracy might just be the ticket. If you have Quick Load you might luck out first trip to the 300.

Hope you and others keep us posted on this subject since there are lots of folks with the same "long drive to a range" issue who want to hone their skills.

Well, since I now have this topic spinning around in my head I have talked myself into it! Altho my local club, Oak Ridge, has a 1000y range, I can see a lot of potential fun working up some loads for my 60 yr old 222 Rem and honing my skills at 300. I'm a lousy wind reader.

Frank B.

 

[fl3gun]

I think the best practice for 1k is a small bore rifle at 200 yards. That will teach you wind reading. Its very easy to call your shots because of the low recoil. Ammo is a bit cheaper and the barrel lasts forever!

 

[queen_stick]

Walt,

I've experimented with that as well. To match your drift @ 1k, I'd suggest a 40 grain HP (I'm playing with some Sierras). It has to be launched pretty slow (3500 or less), but it is doable. I haven't had time to design a load, but I'm going to HBN coat the bullets to reduce the velocity and keep the load density up.

If you come up with anything in the mean time, I'd love to hear what you are using.

Well, the same things that are eating all my time (preventing me from making it to a match) are also eating most of my money Therefore, it might be a while until I get a rifle for this application. I wish I could give you some more info and advice, but I don't have any right now! I certainly appreciate yours though

I do intend to take LongRanger's advice, and figure some things out on the JBM Ballistics charts. (I don't have Quick Load). If I find something that looks promising, I'll definitely share it....

fl3gun... I agree that a GOOD rifle and GREAT 22lr ammo would provide great practice when shot at 200yds. However, as mentioned in my original post, I want to keep it centerfire so I can keep up with (and even improve) my loading skills as well. I can't play with bullet seating, primer changes, runout, and etc if I use a 22lr.

 

[wapiti25]

I shoot a 223 at 300yds for shooting practice. 55gr FB bullets and they get pushed around alot in 10 mph wind. The best is using a reduced size target for what you want to do. The 22LR gets you into the precision rifle game that is not cheap unless you have one already. The 223 is a good cartridge to get trigger time on. I'm shooting the 55's with IMR 4895 and Wolf primers. Another option would set up the 6 BR with the slow twist barrel and shoot the lighter bullets in the 65 to 70gr, that only requires the barrel, brass, and bullets.

 

[queen_stick]

Wapiti,

never thought of the 'switch barrel' ... not a terrible idea.



I just ran some stuff through JBM....

my 1k load for my 6BR is pushed 6.4 MOA with a 10mph cross wind (calculated with JBM)

Keeping the same conditions, I found that the .204 cal 30gr Berger Match Varmint bullet, pushed at 2730fps gives exactly 6.4 MOA at 300yds.

I think the 20VT (loaded down of course) might be the ticket for that. I have no idea if a reduced 20VT load would be accurate. What's the best way to determine that? Anyone out there own a 20VT, and feel like doing some testing?

 

[itchyTF]

If you are considering a switch barrel in .204, you might consider the .20 Practical. Standard .223 dies and brass. Just neck down, load & shoot.

 

[wapiti25]

There are the mid-weight bullets for the 6 BR would be another option and tune the velocity.

 

[queen_stick]

I have an 8-tiwst barrel on my 6br.

for the sake of discussion... let's say I keep that barrel on, and run a reduced load with light weight bullets.

Even with the light bullets (65gr) I'd have to load them down to 1700fps or so to get close to the windage I'm looking at. (That's about the minimum to keep the bullet supersonic at 300yds). Would a setup like that be remotely accurate?

Or, should I get a 14-twist barrel and switch it up?

 

[wapiti25]

I have the best luck with reduced loads using a bullet and a full case of extra slow powder. That may work with the 65's, you just have to try the load. I would use another barrel and save the match barrel you have, this is if you can change your own barrels. Don't over look the 10 and 12 twist barrels that were the std for 243 and 6mm Rem hunting rifles. I built my first 6mmBR using a Shilen blank from Brownell's with a 12 twist it was fairly cheap, it was not the super match. If the reduced velocity is the most important you might look at the 221 Fireball and look at bullets that are not high BC. I have looked for a very cheap way to shoot but don't like the 22 Hornet, so a short chambered 221 Fireball (-.100 or -.200) was considered but bullet cost was the real driving factor not powder, but that is a good way to reduce the velocity. A very reduced 10 ring may be the way to compensate for wind drift. I like using the 6 BR as you are shooting the same rifle and equipment. Just throwing out some idea's for you to look at. Good luck and good shooting

 

[queen_stick]

... I like using the 6 BR as you are shooting the same rifle and equipment....

very good point, wapiti. Now that I think about it... that's probably the best bet.

Appreciate your advice.

 

[mattri]

What about a 30br? A lot of your components are the same, won't need to chang boltface etc.

 

[longbow]

Might try cast bullets. You will not wear out a barrel, your loads go out about 1200-1800( or more), you will learn how to read drift very quickly. They are accurate, my best five shot group at 100 yds .178. The 30BR is one of the best and though we mostly shoot 100-200 Cast Bullet BR. Shooting to three hundred would be no problem. Just another path to look at. Cheap shooting too!Pete