300WSM Troubles

[Sekora]

First off, I want to thank everyone on this site for all the information they provide on shooting and handloading. I found this site when I was searching for an answer to a loading question and have learned a lot by reading through the messages and the articles on here.

Now my problem: I have been trying to come up with a load for my 300WSM for an elk hunt in October. My goal is to get sub MOA consistently out to 400. The gun is a Winchester M70 from 2002 or 2003 with the plastic stock. I have a VX3 4.5-14 with the Leupold rings and bases. The bullet I was hoping to use is a 180 grain Accubond. I have tried countless loads with H4350, H100V, H4831SC. I have tried seating depths from the lands to an .080" jump and settled on .040". Along the way I have also tried 180 grain Partitions, and 180 grain Elite Hunters. I have found with all 3 powders and bullets loads where I get 3 shot groups with 2 touching, one flier. Flier is usually 1.5" at best. I have shot groups with all 3 touching but could not repeat. I am pretty sure it's not a scope issue as point of impact never moves. I am almost at the point of buying a new gun. I considered upgrading the stock but don't want to spend the money on a gun that might have other issues. The barrel in this gun fouls worse than any gun I have. 15 shots is all it takes and the amount of copper in the barrel is enough that you can see it. Am I missing something that might eliminate these fliers? Should I continue to change powders, try a heavier bullet, change the stock? What do you guys think?

 

[watercam]

Change the stock. It will be very difficult to do any better without better support for your barreled action. Glass and pillar bed it and try the load that was best so far. Seeing copper is not a problem. My match rifles 'show' copper, there's no avoiding it. How it cleans up is the issue. If it takes forever to remove the copper then yes, it fouls. If you think it is really affecting your groups, clean more often. You might consider lapping the barrel a bit but with a hunting rig where you will be shooting a fouling shot and then perhaps one or two more rounds during the hunt, should not be an accuracy issue.
With a factory barrel 1moa out to 400 would be doing well. If you can achieve smaller groups at that range great but your kill zone is much larger than that.

 

[dk17hmr]

Sounds like you have only tested 180s. I would sugesst trying lighter bullets like the 165gr Accubonds.

1.5 MOA at 400 yards is still 6" and will kill elk no problem.

 

[johnfred1965]

What watercam said

 

[boltfluter]

+1 for Watercam. I would pillar bed it before going any farther. Takes very little movement to produce the dreaded flyer. Good luck and keep us posted.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[dkhunt14]

A 300 wsm is really accurate. Seems you tried the 2 best powders. Seems you tried bullet seating tests. Maybe the gun doesn't like the bullets. Plastic stocks and bedding get is a good chance that is the issue. I shoot 1000 yard BR. With 300 WSM and if I can shoot 5 shoots at 400 yards in an inch or under it is usually a winning load. Now this is with heavy barreled, custom actioned match rifless. Fliers could be wind. What twist is in the GUN? Matt

 

[SWRichmond]

If you're getting an incredible amount of copper fouling in 15 rounds the barrel is a piece of doo doo. Many factory barrels exhibit this behavior, as they are unlapped.

Bedding the action in the stock and making sure the barrel actually free floats is another major major improvement to accuracy. The action needs something solid to hold it firmly, and the recoil lug needs something immovable to recoil against. If the barrel is bouncing off the stock forend during firing, well guess what...

Factory barrels also exhibit temp drift, as they are not stress relieved. I had a rem factory 308 that drifted, very reliably and predictably. The WSM is throwing a lot more heat down the barrel...

 

[Sekora]

Thanks for all the advise so far. Keep it coming. I have floated the barrel. It was bad to start and it made some improvement. The copper is terrible to get out. It takes me a few hours and a lot of patches with sweets to get it clean. If the fliers kept me within 1.5 moa I would be happy. Problem is when I shoot 200, my groups are getting much worse. I am not against buying a stock, but don't want to spend $600 on this gun. I'll put that money towards something better if that's what I need to do. What stocks do you guys like for less money that aren't going to take me months to get?

 

[Buck 89]

use win. 760 powder

 

[Sekora]

I came to realize I can't polish a turd. I put way too much time in this gun to not get it shooting acceptable. I ended up buying new components and am in the process of having a custom 300WSM made. Shouldn't be much longer and I'll be shooting it. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[ebb]

I agree with what SWRichmond said if its fouling that bad it sure sounds like a barrel in in order. Can you get some one to borescope it?

 

[timeout]

Best money you will ever spend is a custom barrel. Only took shooting a custom barrel 6 BR that I purchased from a forum member to make me realize how much time, powder and bullets I had wasted trying to make a couple of crappy factory barrels shoot.

 

[tripdad]

I have taken a numdet of factory rifles from 1.5 inch to 1/2 moa with few tweaks. Fist bed action and make sure every thing in front of recoil lug is free floated, usally not. Fire lap with tubes final finish, i use rub your own, rub bullets between 2 stainless plates with lapping compound then patch a little lapping compound down barrel. Shot 5 wipe out barrel do again with mid and then ahain with fine. Clean barrel and wow, sub moa or bettet, or not much bettet and sold. Doesnt take but twenty shots and a little time. A few really turn in to shooters then you saved alot of money and feel like a winner. Then some times a tird is a tird no mater what you do, but at least you tried and have tomato stakes

 

[Sekora]

Thanks for the info. I was going to get rid of the gun but maybe I'll keep it and try to learn something with it. I considered the fire lapping but decided against to because I'm running out of time with it. I planned on using it on an elk hunt in October and wanted to be settled on a load and shooting the gun all summer. It would be an acceptable rifle at close range, but I would not trust it past 200. I want to know 100% that the bullet is going to impact where it is intended to, not 2 moa off. For now it's in the safe and hopefully will be replaced with the custom in a few weeks.

 

[dkhunt14]

Thanks for the info. I was going to get rid of the gun but maybe I'll keep it and try to learn something with it. I considered the fire lapping but decided against to because I'm running out of time with it. I planned on using it on an elk hunt in October and wanted to be settled on a load and shooting the gun all summer. It would be an acceptable rifle at close range, but I would not trust it past 200. I want to know 100% that the bullet is going to impact where it is intended to, not 2 moa off. For now it's in the safe and hopefully will be replaced with the custom in a few weeks.

I bet if you put it in a wood stock and pillar bed, it would get a lot better. Some of them plastic stocks are junk. They let the action move all over. Matt

 

[222 rem]

I bet if you put it in a wood stock and pillar bed, it would get a lot better. Some of them plastic stocks are junk. They let the action move all over. Matt

If the first shot ,point of impact is consistent do not be concerned. If you have to shoot a third shot at distance, aderanline rush will have a greater effect than load variables.