300 savage bullets seating deep.

[DHall_37]

Howdy folks, I’ve shot some of my 300 savage reloads and accuracy kinda sucked, I’ll have to tune things in a bit.

my question is is there such a thing as seating a bullet to deep? The 300 savage has a super short neck and I’m limited to an oal of 2.600 I’m shooting a Remington 81. My bullets are .308 FMJ. I’m having to seat them Approximately .080-.100 below the crimp groove.

the powder is not compressed, some rounds stove piped with 39gr of BLC-2 so I’m bumping it up to 40gr. I would just like to know if seating those bullets deep is an issue. The rounds still have a ton of neck tension. I’m going to try and crimp them a tad with my lee collet crimp die. I did this last time, but think I did it too much and caused accuracy to suffer.

Sorry if my thoughts are all over the place, I’ve never been good at writing. I know this is the best reloading forum so I can’t wait to hear what y’all have to advise.

 

[KMart]

Please give us a little information and history on the rifle. I had to look it up to see how it functions.

When you say it shoots your reloads badly what does that mean? how far were you shooting? What kind of measured groups did you get for a 3 shot group?
Were you shooting open sights or a scope?
Were you rested with a rest and front bag or a sandbag/bull bag set up?

What is the history of the gun?
Did you recently buy it?
Has it been in your family for a long time? The last year of mfg was 1950.

Did the rifle shoot well with factory loads? If so, how did it group?

What is the condition of the bore of the rifle? Smooth with good rifling? Pitted bore? Rusty inside?

From seeing how the rifle functions and is put together, there could be a lots of things that needs to be addressed before you get to bullet seating depth to get it shooting well

As far as answering your question, is there such a thing as seating a bullet to deep? As long as the bullet feeds and functions and the bullet stays in the neck through the cycling operation, I would say no problem with seating deep.

 

[DHall_37]

Please give us a little information and history on the rifle. I had to look it up to see how it functions.

When you say it shoots your reloads badly what does that mean? how far were you shooting? What kind of measured groups did you get for a 3 shot group?
Were you shooting open sights or a scope?
Were you rested with a rest and front bag or a sandbag/bull bag set up?

What is the history of the gun?
Did you recently buy it?
Has it been in your family for a long time? The last year of mfg was 1950.

Did the rifle shoot well with factory loads? If so, how did it group?

What is the condition of the bore of the rifle? Smooth with good rifling? Pitted bore? Rusty inside?

From seeing how the rifle functions and is put together, there could be a lots of things that needs to be addressed before you get to bullet seating depth to get it shooting well

As far as answering your question, is there such a thing as seating a bullet to deep? As long as the bullet feeds and functions and the bullet stays in the neck through the cycling operation, I would say no problem with seating deep.

Thanks for your response.
I’ll have a photo of my groups attached at the bottom of this reply.

I was shooting at 50 yards.
Groups were about 8 inches high and spread apart about 5 inches, I was shooting 5 shot groups. I’m using the factory iron sights with the rear sight at its lowest setting. I was shooting from a stool on a sand bag at an indoor range. The rifle shot well with Remington factory ammo, dead on only about 2 inches apart. The bore on this particular rifle is nice and shiny and the rifling Is very pronounced.

Maybe it’s my fault the groups are so poor, the rifle has a crisp trigger pull, something I’m not used to (I shoot military bolt guns most of the time). Also the recoil impulse is strange with the long recoil action.

I don’t have much information on the rifles history, it was purchased on the Gun Broker

 

[cem]

Do the easy and cheap things first. Measure runout on your reloads. Costs nothing and may mean something. Seating deep with a poor fitting die on the ogive might or might not give a misaligned cartridge. I'd start by trying to match factory loads and measuring differences. It seems to me possible that a misaligned bullet in the short neck can't straighten up in the short throat.

 

[DHall_37]

Do the easy and cheap things first. Measure runout on your reloads. Costs nothing and may mean something. Seating deep with a poor fitting die on the ogive might or might not give a misaligned cartridge. I'd start by trying to match factory loads and measuring differences. It seems to me possible that a misaligned bullet in the short neck can't straighten up in the short throat.

Good idea. Sometimes the OAL will fluctuate on my loads, because the shell holder will come loose and I not realize it. I made up 2 batches just now of cartridges to test again tomorrow. I’ve studied the affects of a crooked seated bullet, seems like the bore would straighten it out, but with such a long bullet it’s anyones guess.

 

[KMart]

Also the recoil impulse is strange with the long recoil action.

I can well imagine that it does feel strange because to eject the shell, the barrel unlocks and moves backward about 2 inches then moves forward in the outer barrel sleeve. Same principal as the Browning A5 shotgun.

The bullets of the time were pretty much all flat base and maybe even have been round nose instead of pointed.
The Hodgdon online loading info says that 39.0 of BLc-2 is max for that cartridge.

If it was me doing this, I would find some old school flat base round nose or spire point and start loading at about 37 grains of BLC. Load 3 shot groups adding 3/10 of a grain up to 39.0.
Load them to a length that you can get them in the magazine.

Other powders that may work well is 748, Varget, and CFE 223. They are all close to BLC-2 and Hodgdon has load data for them. To me, for the rifle you have, measuring runout is a waste of time. This is not a tack driving bench rifle

Good luck with your venture.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

When you have factory ammo that shoots well, figure out how to duplicate it. Same bullet ,cbto, velocity is where I would start.

 

[DHall_37]

Also the recoil impulse is strange with the long recoil action.

I can well imagine that it does feel strange because to eject the shell, the barrel unlocks and moves backward about 2 inches then moves forward in the outer barrel sleeve. Same principal as the Browning A5 shotgun.

The bullets of the time were pretty much all flat base and maybe even have been round nose instead of pointed.
The Hodgdon online loading info says that 39.0 of BLc-2 is max for that cartridge.

If it was me doing this, I would find some old school flat base round nose or spire point and start loading at about 37 grains of BLC. Load 3 shot groups adding 3/10 of a grain up to 39.0.
Load them to a length that you can get them in the magazine.

Other powders that may work well is 748, Varget, and CFE 223. They are all close to BLC-2 and Hodgdon has load data for them. To me, for the rifle you have, measuring runout is a waste of time. This is not a tack driving bench rifle

Good luck with your venture.

Thanks for the help, I'm using an older Lyman manual, it says max charge is around 43 grains and 39 to start, my 40 grain loads for tomorrow should be alright, I'll plug the load into Gordon's Reloading Tool and see what it says. Also, those FMJ rounds are definitely not flat based, probably more suited for the 30-06 or .308. Might have to shelf them or plunk them in the 303 British and start using my PPU Flat Based Soft Points. I might want to get some Hornady 180gr to try too., I think Hornady has a few .308 Round Nose projectiles I can get.

Seating like .1 inches below the crimp groove is kind of making me nervous, since these bullets pretty much start to taper off right after the groove. I don't want that bullet to get shoved into the case. Plus,I'm kinda new to the reloading hobby and don't want to damage a rifle I saved a lot of my Army money for.

 

[DHall_37]

When you have factory ammo that shoots well, figure out how to duplicate it. Same bullet ,cbto, velocity is where I would start.

Good deal, I'll look at the box and see what it's advertised at, I don't have a chronograph yet. I try to get better results than factory with my bolt guns, however I'm new to these semi autos.

 

[Adam in WI]

You do have an interesting arsenal. Always thought those early Remington autos were cool as hell.

 

[DHall_37]

I have another question, when crimping with the Lee Factory crimp die I could definitely tell there was something happening when I ran the handle down. However, when inspecting the cases I couldn't tell there was any crimp. does this die just squeeze the neck into the sides of the bullet? the PPU Flat Based Soft Points have no crimp groove or cannelure.

Only other round I've crimped was 41 Swiss and the lead was so soft I could crimp into the sides of the bullet, I had to do this because these bullets were seated long and way out from the crimp groove. I feel like I'm over complicating thing a little bit here lol.

 

[DHall_37]

You do have an interesting arsenal. Always thought those early Remington autos were cool as hell.

Thanks, older firearms are my passion. My goal is to have a load for each one. so far, I have most of them figured out.

 

[jb]

i weighted 21 .224fmj bullets mil pull downs that were 53.4gr to 57.2gr. weight your bullets.

 

[Adam in WI]

My goal is to have a load for each one. so far, I have most of them figured out.

Well, how's this one been going? I only ask because...

You do have an interesting arsenal. Always thought those early Remington autos were cool as hell.

Lo and behold, I've got one waiting for pickup

 

[DumpHollow]

I think that, back in the day, flatbased round nosed bullets were the norm. This rifles chamber and feed systems might be better served by a 150/180 grain RN.

 

[DHall_37]

Well, how's this one been going? I only ask because...

Lo and behold, I've got one waiting for pickup

Not much success with the FMJ boat tail in 300 savage, bullets too long. Hornady .308 150 grain SP shoot the best.

 

[DHall_37]

I think that, back in the day, flatbased round nosed bullets were the norm. This rifles chamber and feed systems might be better served by a 150/180 grain RN.

Agreed I have some 180 grain flat nose that shoot good as well.

 

[Andy Work]

My model 99 300 Savage liked 150 grain bullets with IMR4064.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

A long pointed boattail may not be appropriate for the barrels twist rate. And 150 fmj bullets are not known for being accurrate. They are usually cheap blasting ammo bullets.

Frank