300 PRC, WSM, or Sherman Max

[SweaterDood]

I recently received a magnum bolt for my Defiance Tenacity XM and want a Short Mag setup in addition to my standard sized setup. I will be feeding from a magazine and would like to shoot in the 200-230gr range.

After reading through this section fairly extensively, I decided that if I go with a Short Mag, I want to go .30 rather than 7mm (I already have another standard bolt 7mm ‘cat being drafted).

What are the advantages/disadvantages?
Case life
Barrel life
Can one hit a node that the other can’t quite reach?
Load tuning/development
Etc.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

 

[ShootDots]

I recently received a magnum bolt for my Defiance Tenacity XM and want a Short Mag setup in addition to my standard sized setup. I will be feeding from a magazine and would like to shoot in the 200-230gr range.

After reading through this section fairly extensively, I decided that if I go with a Shot Mag, I want to go .30 rather than 7mm (I already have another standard bolt 7mm ‘cat being drafted).

What are the advantages/disadvantages?
Case life
Barrel life
Can one hit a high node that the other can’t?
Load tuning/development
Etc.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

There is a HUGE difference in the nodes from a 200 to a 230 grain bullet. The "middle" node is where I like to shoot. The 200-20X bullets have a node at 2945 +/- a few. The 215s have THE BEST node at 2890 to 2920. The 230s have a GREAT node at 2770. The NEXT node up for the 230s is right at 2860! That will rattle your teeth! The BEST "all around" load is with the 215s. It is flat, accurate and is "controllable"! I have shot and still shoot ALL 3>>>>if you are NOT used to heavy recoil over long shot strings, the 200-20x bullet is ideal. However, if you are used to heavy recoil, the 215s are very hard to beat. I would never go to the 230s unless and until you have had some experience with the lighter bullets. I forgot to add>>>>this is with the .300WSM. As far as case life, barrel life etc.>> the middle node will extend it out quite a bit>>> 1500+. Case life, if you incorporate annealing and keep the mid-node>>>is unknown>>> I have MANY, MANY loading on some brass that is still going strong.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I assume you mean 300-6.5 PRC? The 300 PRC needs a long action. I wouldn't bother with necking up a 6.5 PRC, you will want more case than that. I would take the MAX, its got the best brass and will run with the WSM. But the WSM is not a bad choice and if ADG does actually pick it up, it would be the easy button. I'd stick with 215s and lighter in this case size. Shorter barreled hunting rifles just wont get you much velocity with the heavier bullets. In a hunting application a rainbow trajectory makes your ranging more critical. It doesnt matter much for known distance target shooting. I personally would shoot the 200-210s for hunting.

 

[Falfan2017]

The max seems interesting with dies and brass and reamer all off the shelf.

 

[SweaterDood]

I knew I forgot something:

Rifle is a PRS type setup currently weighing in around 22lbs with a 25” Bartlein HV contour. I would want to run a 27-28” tube of similar profile, but I don’t plan to compete with it. It would be more of an ELR steel smacker.

My idea was to shoot whatever has the best node around 2900-3000 without pushing the limits of the case. Sounds like the 200-215gr range would be best for my application. Any thoughts on the following bullets:
210/220 SMK
195TMK (currently have some of these)
ELDM/ELDX series
Nosler 210 RDF
I know everyone seems to like the Berger’s, but I just like to explore all of my options

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You can get over 2900 with rl26, but if you want to run a 215 2900-3000 fps without pushing the limits, you need to step up to a bigger case, like the 300 PRC. Many of the velocities you see on this site are from 30-32" barrels.

 

[SweaterDood]

I don’t mind running something lighter either. Like I said, I have a few hundred of the 195 TMKs that may prove more than adequate for my needs. I have had good luck with the Nosler 175 RDFs in my .308 so I’d be willing to give the 210s a try.

Also I can load out to 3.230” OAL and still have ample space to function in the XM magazine. Don’t know if that changes anything or not.

 

[Steve Blair]

The 230s have a GREAT node at 2770. The NEXT node up for the 230s is right at 2860! That will rattle your teeth!

I took fifth at the 2013 F-Class Nationals shooting 230s at 2865 from a 34" .300 WSM barrel. My teeth are just fine.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I’ve always liked the design of the 300 Ruger Compact Magnum (RCM). It’s one of those cartridges that never had a chance to shine due to its restrictions of a 2.8” COAL to fit in standard short action rifles which also had short velocity robbing 20” barrels. At a 2.8” COAL, the big 30 cal bullets were seated so deeply it annihilated the case capacity and any power left over was diminished with the short barrels of the rifles it was chambered in. It never had a snowball’s chance in hell to generate any impressive velocities with the way it was originally designed. So just like the 6.5 Remington Magnum many decades before the RCM, it became all but obsolete nearly as fast as it was introduced.

With the RCM having a case length of 2.1”, a base diameter of .532”, a shoulder diameter of .515”, and a neck length of .305”, it has the bones to be an impressive round with the proper freebore to seat heavy bullets out further in a XM length action or long action. It’s a fair amount larger than the 6.5 PRC case. In my mind, the 6.5 PRC should have been based off of the RCM case design. It would have been much more impressive in the short magnum 6.5 niche. Pics posted below showing the difference in case dimensions between the 6.5 PRC and 300 RCM.






If a person was to improve the shoulder on the RCM to 40 degrees and design a reamer to maximize case capacity using adequate freebore, I think you would see an entirely different set of animals with various neck diameters on the RCM case.

Problem is of course that there is no high quality brass available for the 300 RCM since the round died off so quickly. For that reason it will most likely stay where it lays.

 

[SweaterDood]

Problem is of course that there is no high quality brass available for the 300 RCM since the round died off so quickly. For that reason it will most likely stay where it lays.

No quality brass = dealbreaker, so I wouldn’t do it. My current chambering is based on a 257 Roberts, and it is handicapped by brass for consistency. It won’t group to the standards of Fclass competition, but for the needs of PRS/NRL it should be fine. If I hadn’t invested in the reamer already I would have hit reset and based off the 6.5x55 SE case.

I did find more info from the LRH forum on the 300max. Looks like being able to seat out another .150” or so might let me run it A bit better. The only thing strange is that the barrel length for the 300max is listed at 21.5”. Seems that almost all other loads are with 22-26” barrels, so I bet a 28” would be great with the 300max.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

No quality brass = dealbreaker, so I wouldn’t do it. My current chambering is based on a 257 Roberts, and it is handicapped by brass for consistency. It won’t group to the standards of Fclass competition, but for the needs of PRS/NRL it should be fine. If I hadn’t invested in the reamer already I would have hit reset and based off the 6.5x55 SE case.

I did find more info from the LRH forum on the 300max. Looks like being able to seat out another .150” or so might let me run it A bit better. The only thing strange is that the barrel length for the 300max is listed at 21.5”. Seems that almost all other loads are with 22-26” barrels, so I bet a 28” would be great with the 300max.

Yeah I wouldn’t do the RCM for the same reason. Just pointing out that it’s is a very ideal design for a XM length action. If ADG or Lapua ever picked up the RCM brass, I would start wildcatting on it in a heartbeat

 

[whatwind?]

The max seems interesting with dies and brass and reamer all off the shelf.

this

 

[moondog]

Now that Lapua is coming out with 300 PRC brass, don't count it out

 

[sparky123321]

Now that Lapua is coming out with 300 PRC brass, don't count it out

+1

 

[SweaterDood]

Now that Lapua is coming out with 300 PRC brass, don't count it out

I was thinking of necking up the 6.5 PRC, initially. The 300 is too long and, since I’ll be limited to approximately 3.230”, that rules it out for this action.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Now that Lapua is coming out with 300 PRC brass, don't count it out

ADG, which is just as good as Lapua, already makes 300 PRC brass. Problem is the 300 PRC is a lot longer case than the 300 RCM. The rim face to the shoulder junction on the 300 PRC is 2.121” which longer than the overall case length of the 300 RCM. Overall case length of the 300 PRC is 2.580”

You could painstakingly shorten a 300 PRC case to form 300 RCM but then you would have thick body brass up in the neck area. Not something I would try or recommend. Then with 6.5 PRC brass being about .070” too short, that leaves the RCM left in the middle without much hope for any future.

Funny thing is that Hornady worked with Ruger to design the 375 Ruger, the parent case of the 300 PRC, then Hornady also had a collaborated with Ruger to design the 300 RCM which is also based on a shortened 375 Ruger case.

After years of little success with the 375 Ruger and 300 RCM rounds commercially, Hornady necked down the 375 Ruger to make the 300 PRC (which had already been done by wildcatters) and they brought life to a new round. Then shortening the 300PRC/375 Ruger to make the 6.5 PRC they birthed another popular round. But they never went back to the middle ground on the RCM design.

 

[SweaterDood]

After years of little success with the 375 Ruger and 300 RCM rounds commercially, Hornady necked down the 375 Ruger to make the 300 PRC (which had already been done by wildcatters) and they brought life to a new round. Then shortening the 300PRC/375 Ruger to make the 6.5 PRC they birthed another popular round. But they never went back to the middle ground on the RCM design.

I have been of the belief that the R700 action standards (short/long) are a major hindrance to cartridge development. The 3-3.3” arena is ripe for modern case design, but until very recently was only applicable to Mauser actions. I fully support the intermediate length actions and hope to see the middle standard take root

 

[FURMAN]

I have been of the belief that the R700 action standards (short/long) are a major hindrance to cartridge development. The 3-3.3” arena is ripe for modern case design, but until very recently was only applicable to Mauser actions. I fully support the intermediate length actions and hope to see the middle standard take root

I find it humorous that companies like Ruger and Nosler still use the 3.4" "standard" for "long actions" when it is far more appropriate for short mag type cartridges. Regardless of what some think of the PRCs they are starting to push the envelope of what a magazine box length should be.

 

[Evan]

I have been of the belief that the R700 action standards (short/long) are a major hindrance to cartridge development. The 3-3.3” arena is ripe for modern case design, but until very recently was only applicable to Mauser actions. I fully support the intermediate length actions and hope to see the middle standard take root

Just in case you didn't know, Jim Borden makes a midlength action that he calls the Ridgeline. https://bordenrifles.com/custom-actions/alpine-and-timberline-actions/

 

[SweaterDood]

Just in case you didn't know, Jim Borden makes a midlength action that he calls the Ridgeline. https://bordenrifles.com/custom-actions/alpine-and-timberline-actions/

I did know this, but didnt do too much research regarding the specs. I recall that Lone Peak also made a mid length version of their Fuzion action, but it doesn’t appear to still be an option on the website.

Defiance put in the leg work alongside APA, Hawkins, and MDT to bring a mid length repeater setup to market. And once they released the Tenacity in XM, it was a no-brainer for me. Especially after speaking with them over the phone. I don’t think one can really go wrong with so many great options on the market, though.