300 Norma Mag Improved VS the 338 Norma Mag Improved

[LRPV]

I have all the parts to put together an extended range fun gun in 338 Norma IMP. After reading a little more and seeing the popularity of the 300 version as well as the cost of 338 bullets, I'm second guessing my decision to go 338.

Intentions are to build this as a repeater for out to a mile maybe more. My thoughts were like an ELR PRS match rifle even though I'll probably never shoot matches with it.

Action is a BAT HR set up to run the longest cartridges it can. Plan on sticking to the Norma case to be able to mag feed it without having to seat the bullets deep in the case. If I were to single feed, might go with the Lapua but that's not what I want to do right now.

Any advice on one over the other? What twist and bullet in a 30?

 

[DaveTooley]

Just my experience over the last 18 years working in the sniper rifle world and two decades in the 1000 yard BR world, based on accuracy, the 30's will out shoot the 338's. There's a reason the military chose the 300 NM for personnel and the 338 NM for antimaterial.
considering accuracy first, 1-9 and bullets from 215 grs to 230 grs

 

[LCazador]

The variety and availability of bullets for the 30 vs the 33 is far better too!

 

[shoot4fun]

I have all the parts to put together an extended range fun gun in 338 Norma IMP. After reading a little more and seeing the popularity of the 300 version as well as the cost of 338 bullets, I'm second guessing my decision to go 338.

Intentions are to build this as a repeater for out to a mile maybe more. My thoughts were like an ELR PRS match rifle even though I'll probably never shoot matches with it.

Action is a BAT HR set up to run the longest cartridges it can. Plan on sticking to the Norma case to be able to mag feed it without having to seat the bullets deep in the case. If I were to single feed, might go with the Lapua but that's not what I want to do right now.

Any advice on one over the other? What twist and bullet in a 30?

I own a custom 338LM and a custom 300NMI 35˚ IMP and will tell you if I had gotten the 300 first the 338 would not be in my safe. While many want the biggest, heaviest 30 cal bullet available I love mine with the 215 Hybrid. When you can easily generate velocity of 3100FPS with it the added bonus is that accuracy has been fantastic. I only wish I had somewhere to shoot it more often.
The pic is from June 2024 in Wyoming with the 300NMI. Shot three to get the wind read and next two were the two right above the black spot. That is Berger factory 300NM mom with 215 Hybrid. the other two waterline hits are my first attempt at reloads using the 230OTM in fire formed Lapua brass.
The target is 11" wide and was at 1800 yards.

 

[FeMan]

FWIW, MDT makes a 4.05" magazine and PTG makes Stiller DBM that accepts it. I did find that this setup will allow me to mag feed the 338 LMI and touch the lands.

I have two 300 NMI's (one for me and one for my wife) on BAT HRs and set mine up to be a switch barrel 338 LMI as well. We compete in ELR. The 300 NMIs are shooting so good that I may never chamber the 338 LMI. If I do, my 34" barrel will need to shoot the 300 OTMs at 3160 to have any ballistic advantage to my 245 LRHT loads (one rifle is tuned at 3040 and the other at 3120 fps). The G7 of the 245 LRHT is about the same as the 300 once the 300 are pointed properly. Even if the 338 is comparable, the recoil impulse will be around 2x what the 300 NMI is. I will probably end up chambering the barrel this spring just for fun, but I doubt I will find it out performing the 300 NMI at distance.

 

[Mike TackleBerry]

I have all the parts to put together an extended range fun gun in 338 Norma IMP. After reading a little more and seeing the popularity of the 300 version as well as the cost of 338 bullets, I'm second guessing my decision to go 338.

Intentions are to build this as a repeater for out to a mile maybe more. My thoughts were like an ELR PRS match rifle even though I'll probably never shoot matches with it.

Action is a BAT HR set up to run the longest cartridges it can. Plan on sticking to the Norma case to be able to mag feed it without having to seat the bullets deep in the case. If I were to single feed, might go with the Lapua but that's not what I want to do right now.

Any advice on one over the other? What twist and bullet in a 30?

How far do you plan to shoot? The 300 Norma will walk around the majority of the 338 flavors out there except for stuff like the 33XC and 338 Snipetac. Berger 245s at 3000 fps is tough to beat.

 

[Desert Fox]

Just my experience over the last 18 years working in the sniper rifle world and two decades in the 1000 yard BR world, based on accuracy, the 30's will out shoot the 338's. There's a reason the military chose the 300 NM for personnel and the 338 NM for antimaterial.
considering accuracy first, 1-9 and bullets from 215 grs to 230 grs

^^^ here is why I choose 9 twist on my 300 NM build. I'm partial at the opinion about the accuracy of 30's over the 338. But who am I to question the wisdom of one of the country's premier rifle smith. I can only speak for my experienced however.
My 338 Lapua Ackley, with 9.5 twist Broughton built by Nate Dagley of SSG Gunsmithing, Center North Dakota, is one hell of an accurate rifle I've own. Loaded with 300 Berger OTM, the rifle proved itself at 1000 yards to 2600 yards in competition.

 

[LRPV]

How far do you plan to shoot? The 300 Norma will walk around the majority of the 338 flavors out there except for stuff like the 33XC and 338 Snipetac. Berger 245s at 3000 fps is tough to beat.

Locally it’s pretty hard to find a good spot to shoot a mile but that’s kind of the idea for this rifle right now anyway.

 

[jelenko]

I own a custom 338LM and a custom 300NMI 35˚ IMP and will tell you if I had gotten the 300 first the 338 would not be in my safe. While many want the biggest, heaviest 30 cal bullet available I love mine with the 215 Hybrid. When you can easily generate velocity of 3100FPS with it the added bonus is that accuracy has been fantastic. I only wish I had somewhere to shoot it more often.
The pic is from June 2024 in Wyoming with the 300NMI. Shot three to get the wind read and next two were the two right above the black spot. That is Berger factory 300NM mom with 215 Hybrid. the other two waterline hits are my first attempt at reloads using the 230OTM in fire formed Lapua brass.
The target is 11" wide and was at 1800 yards.

Pardon my French, but shit that's < .06 MOA at 1800 yards!

 

[shoot4fun]

Pardon my French, but shit that's < .06 MOA at 1800 yards!

There was a typical Wyoming wind blowing left to right but, determined by the three shots it took to ring steel, it was fairly consistent. That dot in approximately 2" diameter. While all four shots are a water line elevation I would say the total for the hits is somewhere between .4 and .5 MOA. 1 MOA being (simplified) and inch then the 11" wide target is approximately .6MOA.
Don't hold me to that math as I am still a bit chemo addled.
To be fair that was my first opportunity with this rifle at anything over 1000 yards. The rifle still has just under than 100 rounds total and I have owned it for 4 years.

 

[ISS]

lots of good 30 caliber bullets out there to choose from. The shop where FeMan hangs out is building me the 300NMI. I have a nearly full box of the 245gr Sierras to start out and a keg of N570. The guys he shoots with are getting over 3000fps with the Berger.
Like he said, recoil impulse with a 338 is about TWICE the 300.

 

[Mike TackleBerry]

Making this a mag-fed rifle could hinder the optimal seating depth of the 300 Norma with 245s, especially since the Norma is notorious for developing donuts fast due to the shoulder angle ( the improved version definitely helps alleviate this issue a lot). With the distances you plan on shooting, a 300 PRC would be a much better fit. It's going to be a lot cheaper to shoot with 95% of the performance.

 

[LRPV]

Already have the Lapua/Norma mag bolt face.

 

[Mike TackleBerry]

Already have the Lapua/Norma mag bolt face.

Copy that.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

@Alex Wheeler @tom could prob provide some input on this

 

[LRPV]

@Alex Wheeler @tom could prob provide some input on this

Already talked to him. Didn't want to bother him anymore about it and thought I'd bounce the idea around on here a little.

 

[shoot4fun]

Already talked to him. Didn't want to bother him anymore about it and thought I'd bounce the idea around on here a little.

Alex built mine on a BAT HR. I feed 215 and 230 from CIP mags but haven't done any work with heavier.

 

[Evlshnngns]

"There's a reason the military chose the 300 NM for personnel and the 338 NM for antimaterial."

Energy on target is why you go 338. That comes with more recoil, and a more costly bullet.

 

[ISS]

My 300 NMI, built on a BAT HR uses MDT 5 round magazines for the 300/338 LAPUA round. That is 3.850", and what the local shooters are using with zero issues over the last couple years.

DO NOT let anybody here tell you otherwise. Just ask FeMan what he is doing for his and his wife's rifles the past several years. Or, ask anybody who has actually been shooting a 300 NMI more than a year if he would rather have done something different.

 

[Mike TackleBerry]

Already talked to him. Didn't want to bother him anymore about it and thought I'd bounce the idea around on here a little.

Already talked to him. Didn't want to bother him anymore about it and thought I'd bounce the idea around on here a little.

What shoulder angle are you leaning towards?