300 Blackout, myths and truths explored.

[dellet]

There seems to be enough interest in this cartridge on the forum, but any threads seem to treat it a step or two below a Creedless. It’s clearly not for everyone, but it has its place. Honestly there is a fair amount of mis-information thrown about.

Straight off the top i’m A fan of the cartridge and have spent the last few years looking at the limits of it. There is a certain versatility that keeps me finding some other use for this silly little cartridge. Suitable for single shot to full auto, rifle or pistol. Bullet weights from 78-265 grains, speeds from 900-3000 fps. Easily capable of sub MOA groups. Performs well in barrel lengths from 7-22”.

While it’s very versatile, it has some clear limits. You just can’t get enough powder in the case to have anything less than a rainbow trajectory past a few hundred yards. It becomes a hunters cartridge, not for someone who just shoots animals. You can’t shoot it in the butt or hoof and expect the bullet to do the work for you, you need to be able to not only hit the mark, you need to know what mark to hit. You also need to be able to hit it with the correct bullet.

There are plenty of cartridge specific bullets on the market that will expand at suitable velocities for the cartridge, but that does not automatically give them the energy for a complete knockdown due to an energy dump. It may be blood loss doing the kill and a fair track for recovery, back to needing to be a hunter with appropriate skills.

While it’s true any 30 caliber bullet can exit the barrel, many just aren’t suitable for any thing but paper, and some not really for that.

For target shooting, sub sonic can have all the challenges of long distance in less than 500 yards. Think of long distance 22LR with a bullet having a BC of 500. Past 200 yards an ES of 10 generally equates to more than 1” of vertical. Better have that load spot on. Sub MOA groups with subs at 200 yards are challenging for most shooters and most ranges have that length. Other nice thing about shooting subs is a pound of powder is good for 600-1200 rounds.

Targets with supers, the cartridge could be competitive on the club level to 600 yards. Palma class bullets work very well and can be loaded to velocities to keep them out of the transonic range beyond that distance. Flatbase 110-120 grain bullets easily hit 2500 fps in longer barrels and if half MOA doesn’t hurt your pride, the cartridge is capable of it. You won’t finish at the top, but shouldn’t be on the bottom either. 2-300 yard events are easily in play.

The key to the cartridge is bullet choice and knowing the limits of the cartridge and the shooter. As I said before, I have spent a fair amount of time exploring the cartridge. Defending it when appropriate, telling people to rethink what they are doing if needed. I hate an over sell as much as an under sell.

An honest discussion is appreciated, as that only benefits those with an interest. There are times when “use another cartridge” is the right answer, but often in discussion like this, it’s thrown out in ignorance, when there is an actual better load application.

Please keep it civil. There was a varmint bullet thread last week that got locked because of attitude and language. Flame all you want with facts you can back up, but keep the name calling and language appropriate for a Sunday meeting house.

Here’s one to consider as deer season approaches.

Speer 150 BLK Gold Dot,
2200 fps 16” barrel
1700 fps+ @250 yards.
980# energy
1/2 MOA capable
Suitable for any medium sized game within those limits.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

Great little cartridge but i had to pass it up. I used it on hogs with a thermal and it just didnt perform as well as my 223. With the 300 i had to start adjusting for elevation past 125 yards. Not that big of a deal but i was already trying to adjust for lead on a fast moving hog. So having to hold off for him moving plus him moving away past 100 yards was just not working for me. I went back to the 223 with a 65gr. Gameking and i can site in so that i can hold dead on till 225 yards. So that allows me to only have to worry about lead and not elevation.

Other than that the 300 work awesome on deer and sinhle boars i shot with it. But if there was more than 2 hogs in the group i would gave rather had my 223. Or my 25DTI for that matter.

 

[alinwa]

Could someone please explain to my WHY they'd use this round as a "deer cartridge?"

The 300AAC Blackout was developed for one purpose, subsonic use.

And it's awesome for this.

Why shoot deers with it?

Why not sheet the deers with a 308Win?? Why try to make an argument for using the 300AAC BO for something it isn't?

Help me to understand please.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

Could someone please explain to my WHY they'd use this round as a "deer cartridge?"

The 300AAC Blackout was developed for one purpose, subsonic use.

And it's awesome for this.

Why shoot deers with it?

Why not sheet the deers with a 308Win?? Why try to make an argument for using the 300AAC BO for something it isn't?

Help me to understand please.

Honestly the 300 performed excellent on deer for me. They are thin skinned about 110-140 pounds. No way this cart couldnt work. Heck i weigh 300 pounds and i guarantee you i wouldnt want shot in the lungs with it.

 

[dellet]

Could someone please explain to my WHY they'd use this round as a "deer cartridge?"

The 300AAC Blackout was developed for one purpose, subsonic use.

And it's awesome for this.

Why shoot deers with it?

Why not sheet the deers with a 308Win?? Why try to make an argument for using the 300AAC BO for something it isn't?

Help me to understand please.

I agree completely, where I live and hunt, combined with how I hunt, 300 Blackout is such complete overkill.
I’ve been thinking of going to an air rifle. I decided against it because I found to get the velocity I needed, the air rifle made just as much noise as a bolt action Blackout with suppressed subs.

Seriously, if you think you need a 308 to kill a sub 200 pound deer at less than 100 yards, I think you should use one. There are plenty of other people feel comfortable with a little less gun to fill the freezer. It’s simply a choice.

 

[Longcarbine]

I have a Ruger bolt action chambered in .300BO, I have not reloaded for it yet but plan to. Right now I am shooting factory ammo loaded with 110gr V-max bullets and love it for coyotes.

 

[dolek]

I agree completely, where I live and hunt, combined with how I hunt, 300 Blackout is such complete overkill.
I’ve been thinking of going to an air rifle. I decided against it because I found to get the velocity I needed, the air rifle made just as much noise as a bolt action Blackout with suppressed subs.

Seriously, if you think you need a 308 to kill a sub 200 pound deer at less than 100 yards, I think you should use one. There are plenty of other people feel comfortable with a little less gun to fill the freezer. It’s simply a choice.

+1

@alinwa Read the first post....pretty simple really...move along if all you have is negative in your vocabulary.Some of us are here to learn all we can from those with experience. Why ruin other folks threads ?

 

[dellet]

Great little cartridge but i had to pass it up. I used it on hogs with a thermal and it just didnt perform as well as my 223. With the 300 i had to start adjusting for elevation past 125 yards. Not that big of a deal but i was already trying to adjust for lead on a fast moving hog. So having to hold off for him moving plus him moving away past 100 yards was just not working for me. I went back to the 223 with a 65gr. Gameking and i can site in so that i can hold dead on till 225 yards. So that allows me to only have to worry about lead and not elevation.

Other than that the 300 work awesome on deer and sinhle boars i shot with it. But if there was more than 2 hogs in the group i would gave rather had my 223. Or my 25DTI for that matter.

That is one of the truths about the cartridge. You can’t replace speed and BC. You probably have about 4.5” arc with the 223 at that distance. Even with an 85 grain bullet in the Blackout you’d probably drop to 175 yards. Then again the same weight bullet at same velocity would be so short and fat, the BC would kill it.

Right tool for the right job.

 

[Flouncer]

Asked out of complete ignorance and in objectivity. Are there subsonic deer loads or factory ammo that are decent expanding killers out to 100 yards ? 150 Yards ? 200 yards ? - thanks ( I know I can look all this up but I can ask here among friends )

 

[1885Winman4590]

As far as killing whitetails goes, I use a 32/20 handload w/ a 100 gr hndy XTP out to 75 yds. Use a single shot falling block. A heart shot kills them every time. If I cant take the shot I want, I dont take the shot. Use to use a 300 winmag and it didn't kill them any better. Whatever you choose to use, shot placement is the key.

 

[dolek]

I was wondering the same thing Flouncer , expansion is key with a round like this...I think. New one to me,never did any testing with this one.

 

[dellet]

Asked out of complete ignorance and in objectivity. Are there subsonic deer loads or factory ammo that are decent expanding killers out to 100 yards ? 150 Yards ? 200 yards ? - thanks ( I know I can look all this up but I can ask here among friends )

This is a two part question and please no offense intended.....

It depends on you more than the ammo. I have an acquaintance on a cartridge specific forum that culls Red Deer in New Zealand. His shots are often over 200 meters with subsonic ammo. These are handloads, and he has a dog to help track. These are handloads and he is capable of headshots greater distances than 200 meters with subs. 200 plus days a year in the field probably helps.

Directly answering, yes there are expanding subs available. Some are basically off the shelf like Hornady, others by specialty companies like Lehigh defense. The problem with factory subs is consistency. If you feel you can buy off the shelf ammo and have MOA groups to 500 yards with a 308, then you get the challenge.

100 yards is a more likely goal. The problem is velocity spreads. Not uncommon with factory subs at 100 yards to group 1” wide and 4” vertical.

Hornady has a 190 grain load shows real promise. It was submitted and passed all the FBI tests and has been accepted by Somme police forces. I think they are the first big name commercial manufacturer to do that.

I am not a big fan of factory subs because they tend to be loud and there are much better bullets available to load than offered ready to go.

With supers there are plenty of factory offerings capable out 250 yards and beyond in the right hands and conditions.

 

[rebel]

Could someone please explain to my WHY they'd use this round as a "deer cartridge?"

The 300AAC Blackout was developed for one purpose, subsonic use.

And it's awesome for this.

Why shoot deers with it?

Why not sheet the deers with a 308Win?? Why try to make an argument for using the 300AAC BO for something it isn't?

Help me to understand please.

Ok, I'll help. Generally where I live and hunt the bucks are in the 130 to 170 lb. class animal depending on the rut and how much he has been running. The occasional 200 lb. plus buck shows up every now and again. When I first got into the 300 Blk. I tested to the point of obsessive. Wetpack, butcher cuts and a myriad of bullets from 110gr to 125 gr. I wanted a tight group and performance. The 125 SST won out over the 125 Nosler in my final tests.
This was my first attempt at deer hunting with an AR 15 and this cartridge.
At some point in November a young butter ball buck presented himself at my feeder about 100 yards away. Slightly quartering toward me, I put the crosshair lined up with his offside leg and shot. He donkey kicked, knocked over the feeder, ran 30 yards and died. Lung and cardio damage was extensive. Not a lot of meat damage.
Recovered a fully expanded bullet under the off side hide.
I can't express enough how much I shot this rifle before hunting with it. I knew I had a self imposed range limit and the buck appeared well under that.
It did really well, I was very pleased with the performance and consider it a very modern woods rifle, every bit as effective as a 30/30.
So yeah, I like it but did my homework, chose my optic and tested ballistics.
Not just for sub sonics, may not be for you but it will do the job.
And I'm not arguing it's a 308, it's not. But I don't need a 308 to kill under 200 yards.

 

[dellet]

As far as killing whitetails goes, I use a 32/20 handload w/ a 100 gr hndy XTP out to 75 yds. Use a single shot falling block. A heart shot kills them every time. If I cant take the shot I want, I dont take the shot. Use to use a 300 winmag and it didn't kill them any better. Whatever you choose to use, shot placement is the key.

The only thing to add to this is bullet choice.

Many factory offerings out there are 147-150 fmj military or match bullets because they are cheap. Same goes with factory subs. A 220 SMK at 1000 fps pencils through tissue with little damage. A huge part of the lost animal issues with the cartridge are due to poor bullet choice and compounded by poor shot placement.

Hoping a bit of discussion gets people to realize you can’t shoot a deer in the guts with a match bullet at low speeds and get pink mist flop over dead. But being involved with the cartridge for a long time, it’s what people expect.

 

[spencerhenry]

I bought a 300BO years ago, actually I had d-tech create an upper for me. My purpose was to be able to kill more than one coyote off the bait at a time. Thinking that a sub-sonic round would allow me to shoot one and then shoot the other one because it didn't know what was going on.
It does not work, no matter how quiet a round is, it still makes noise, especially when it hits something. So, I NEVER got a second shot at a second coyote.
This was several years ago, before there were good expanding heavy bullets for subsonic work. I was using 220gr sierraMK, I lost 3 coyotes in one week. A bullet to the chest did NOT put them down, it appeared to not even slow them down. Two of them I tracked for over a mile and a half and never saw them or caught up to them.
Since then there are bullets out there that expand at low velocities, but they cost upwards of a dollar a piece. During my load development, I had little difficulty producing 1 MOA at 100 yards with super sonic rounds, but I spent a great deal of time to produce a MOA round with sub sonic rounds. With proper bullets for hunting, load development can get quite pricey in a hurry.
My experience with sub sonic rounds is that they are very sensitive to brass selection and prep. As everyone already knows, the trajectory with subs is quite poor, you need a hold over chart with 10 yard increments.
I gave up on this round, it does not put animals down with any authority without very expensive projectiles(I assume the expanding bullets work, I never used them). It is not quiet enough to fool coyotes. It is under powered for any big game larger than a small whitetail.
Where I live, a small deer will go 140 pounds or more, a large one in the mid 200's. Bears can absorb a great deal of lead and keep going, elk are 3 to 5 times the size of our deer, mountain goats and sheep are not tiny animals either.

I know some want to say how if you are using that round, you must rely on better hunting skills, blah, blah, blah. I have been a bowhunter for 40 years, if you want to rely on your hunting skills, try it with a bow, on the ground, and never shoot over 50 yards. BUT, arrows kill very effectively and from my experience will put an elk or deer down quicker than a similar boiler room rifle shot.
Personally I understand the challenge of under powered weapons for hunting, it increases the degree of difficulty, but I think using the lowest powered weapon you can kill something with reliably, is unethical.
300BO is NOT a big game round, it is NOT a great varmint round. It IS impressive what you can get out of that little case, but that does not change anything in its suitability for hunting.
In colorado there are minimum energy requirements for hunting weapons. Big game requires a minimum of .243 diameter, 16" barrel, 70gr projectile for deer, antelope and bear, and 85gr for elk and moose, AND must have 1000ftlbs of energy at 100 yards as rated by the manufacturer.

 

[dellet]

I bought a 300BO years ago, actually I had d-tech create an upper for me. My purpose was to be able to kill more than one coyote off the bait at a time. Thinking that a sub-sonic round would allow me to shoot one and then shoot the other one because it didn't know what was going on.
It does not work, no matter how quiet a round is, it still makes noise, especially when it hits something. So, I NEVER got a second shot at a second coyote.
This was several years ago, before there were good expanding heavy bullets for subsonic work. I was using 220gr sierraMK, I lost 3 coyotes in one week. A bullet to the chest did NOT put them down, it appeared to not even slow them down. Two of them I tracked for over a mile and a half and never saw them or caught up to them.
Since then there are bullets out there that expand at low velocities, but they cost upwards of a dollar a piece. During my load development, I had little difficulty producing 1 MOA at 100 yards with super sonic rounds, but I spent a great deal of time to produce a MOA round with sub sonic rounds. With proper bullets for hunting, load development can get quite pricey in a hurry.
My experience with sub sonic rounds is that they are very sensitive to brass selection and prep. As everyone already knows, the trajectory with subs is quite poor, you need a hold over chart with 10 yard increments.
I gave up on this round, it does not put animals down with any authority without very expensive projectiles(I assume the expanding bullets work, I never used them). It is not quiet enough to fool coyotes. It is under powered for any big game larger than a small whitetail.
Where I live, a small deer will go 140 pounds or more, a large one in the mid 200's. Bears can absorb a great deal of lead and keep going, elk are 3 to 5 times the size of our deer, mountain goats and sheep are not tiny animals either.

I know some want to say how if you are using that round, you must rely on better hunting skills, blah, blah, blah. I have been a bowhunter for 40 years, if you want to rely on your hunting skills, try it with a bow, on the ground, and never shoot over 50 yards. BUT, arrows kill very effectively and from my experience will put an elk or deer down quicker than a similar boiler room rifle shot.
Personally I understand the challenge of under powered weapons for hunting, it increases the degree of difficulty, but I think using the lowest powered weapon you can kill something with reliably, is unethical.
300BO is NOT a big game round, it is NOT a great varmint round. It IS impressive what you can get out of that little case, but that does not change anything in its suitability for hunting.
In colorado there are minimum energy requirements for hunting weapons. Big game requires a minimum of .243 diameter, 16" barrel, 70gr projectile for deer, antelope and bear, and 85gr for elk and moose, AND must have 1000ftlbs of energy at 100 yards as rated by the manufacturer.

There are probably 10 factory offerings currently that meet the requirements you laid out from the state of Colorado. Most would have 1000 pounds out closer to 150 yards.

Subs won’t do it and I’m guessing that there are no pistols allowed for deer in Colorado?

 

[johnfred1965]

Could someone please explain to my WHY they'd use this round as a "deer cartridge?"

The 300AAC Blackout was developed for one purpose, subsonic use.

And it's awesome for this.

Why shoot deers with it?

Why not sheet the deers with a 308Win?? Why try to make an argument for using the 300AAC BO for something it isn't?

Help me to understand please.

Due to my financial situation, I am likely to have just one firearm soon. If I wanted a suppressed round that would also double as a hunting round, that would also double as a home defense round, that would also double as a nusiance varmint round, that would also double as a cheap plinker, that would also double as a noise-maker on New Year's, etc.,etc., etc. the blackout may be my last firearm. I really hope it doesn't come to that. Except for my wife, variety is the spice of life!

 

[rebel]

It's not really a problem to get 1000 lbs plus energy with it with proper loading techniques. I understand that some don't want to go down that rabbit hole, I did and found it relatively easy to do.

 

[alinwa]

Due to my financial situation, I am likely to have just one firearm soon. If I wanted a suppressed round that would also double as a hunting round, that would also double as a home defense round, that would also double as a nusiance varmint round, that would also double as a cheap plinker, that would also double as a noise-maker on New Year's, etc.,etc., etc. the blackout may be my last firearm. I really hope it doesn't come to that. Except for my wife, variety is the spice of life!

THIS I understand

 

[rebel]

THIS I understand

That is sad.