30 Major

[Hoodoo]

I was stuck in the same boat I'm sure a lot of guys are that are switching from group to VFS shooting. Didn't want to rebate rims, didn't want to open up bolt face, etc. I shot VFS this last winter and spring with an older 6PPC of my dad's, and like most just couldn't get over how large those big ol 30 holes where.


After talking with Mike Ezell, I decided to jump on the 30 Major bandwagon. Boy am I glad I did.


Start with 6.5 Grendel brass, which in my opinion is just as good as 6BR brass. I necked it up to .284, and then to 30 cal. Neck turning was no different than turning for my 30BR.


It really seems to like VV N120, and after discussing with Mike some I'm sure glad I bought 8 pounds of it, should last me awhile and it seems to love it.


I've settled on 31.5 grains, which puts it just above the shoulder in my case without using a drop tube. I've gotten as high as 32.0 grains without any pressure.


Die was simple, Redding type S bushing die from Midway, opened up the bushing shelf with a carbide reamer and that's that. I made my seating die out of a Wilson blank with my Chamber reamer.

Rifle Specs:
Bat B Right bolt, Left load Left Eject
Lilja 30 Cal 1:17 twist 3-groove 23" finish NBRSA HV
Lee Six Stock
Leupold Fixed 40 Power scope

One last comment, because I think it's worth noting.

Recoil: Definitely less than a 30BR. Mike has some interesting theories about case design, I'm not sure how much that contributes but there is a noticeable difference in recoil.

 

[Hoodoo]

6.5 Grendel, 284 Grendel, 30 Major

 

[GunDoc]

6.5 Grendel, 284 Grendel, 30 MajorView attachment 1123513

What bullet weight are you using, and what velocities are you getting ??

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I was stuck in the same boat I'm sure a lot of guys are that are switching from group to VFS shooting. Didn't want to rebate rims, didn't want to open up bolt face, etc. I shot VFS this last winter and spring with an older 6PPC of my dad's, and like most just couldn't get over how large those big ol 30 holes where.


After talking with Mike Ezell, I decided to jump on the 30 Major bandwagon. Boy am I glad I did.


Start with 6.5 Grendel brass, which in my opinion is just as good as 6BR brass. I necked it up to .284, and then to 30 cal. Neck turning was no different than turning for my 30BR.


It really seems to like VV N120, and after discussing with Mike some I'm sure glad I bought 8 pounds of it, should last me awhile and it seems to love it.


I've settled on 31.5 grains, which puts it just above the shoulder in my case without using a drop tube. I've gotten as high as 32.0 grains without any pressure.


Die was simple, Redding type S bushing die from Midway, opened up the bushing shelf with a carbide reamer and that's that. I made my seating die out of a Wilson blank with my Chamber reamer.

Rifle Specs:
Bat B Right bolt, Left load Left Eject
Lilja 30 Cal 1:17 twist 3-groove 23" finish NBRSA HV
Lee Six Stock
Leupold Fixed 40 Power scope

One last comment, because I think it's worth noting.

Recoil: Definitely less than a 30BR. Mike has some interesting theories about case design, I'm not sure how much that contributes but there is a noticeable difference in recoil.



View attachment 1123508

Whoa! 32.0 grains of n120 with no pressure? The old stuff would almost certainly give LOTS of pressure. I have some new stuff that I've tested just a little and I could tell it was slower but that's more than I expected it to be! Also, how are you pouring it in? I despise long drop tubes and cases that are so full that they are hard to handle. That said, with the old stuff, 30.8 was very near tops in terms of pressure and about .100 from the top of the case mouth. That's dropping straight from the measure with a short tube. Someone I know has been having pressure problems with 2014 n120(IIRC) in his barrel at anything above about 30.5 gr. That surprised me because I've done a bunch of these and 30.5-30.8 has been a sweet spot fot many different lots of n120 powder, over 13 years now.

Clearly, what was once the most consistent powder I've ever seen has gone through some changes recently. I had a ton of older stuff made in the mid 90's and never had to change across many different lots. It appears that the burn rate has been made both faster and slower than what I shot forever, since. I'll be doing some more testing with his and mine..and I still have some of the old to use as a baseline.

Either way, I'm glad you like it and it's working well. I just want to get to what's up with the newer powder. I've seen it shoot great but I definitely want to see what up.

Thanks for posting this!--Mike Ezell

 

[Hoodoo]

Whoa! 32.0 grains of n120 with no pressure? The old stuff would almost certainly give LOTS of pressure. I have some new stuff that I've tested just a little and I could tell it was slower but that's more than I expected it to be! Also, how are you pouring it in? I despise long drop tubes and cases that are so full that they are hard to handle. That said, with the old stuff, 30.8 was very near tops in terms of pressure and about .100 from the top of the case mouth. That's dropping straight from the measure with a short tube. Someone I know has been having pressure problems with 2014 n120(IIRC) in his barrel at anything above about 30.5 gr. That surprised me because I've done a bunch of these and 30.5-30.8 has been a sweet spot fot many different lots of n120 powder, over 13 years now.

Clearly, what was once the most consistent powder I've ever seen has gone through some changes recently. I had a ton of older stuff made in the mid 90's and never had to change across many different lots. It appears that the burn rate has been made both faster and slower than what I shot forever, since. I'll be doing some more testing with his and mine..and I still have some of the old to use as a baseline.

Either way, I'm glad you like it and it's working well. I just want to get to what's up with the newer powder. I've seen it shoot great but I definitely want to see what up.

Thanks for posting this!--Mike Ezell

I was surprised as well after chatting with you. I'm not using a drop tube, I also have never been a big fan of drop tubes. I still haven't ran it over a chrono, I'm curious as to what I'm getting for velocity. I've ran all the way from 30.0 to 32.0 in .1 grain increments, and granted I say I had no pressure, I don't have an ejector on my bolt which is usually the first sign of pressure, so I very well could have had the first sign of pressure at 32.0

When I get home I'll look up what Lot of powder mine is, I got it from Graf's about 2 months ago.

 

[6BRAckley]

Hey Buddy - I think you put this in the wrong forum

Looks like a good start to the project.

JP

 

[Hoodoo]

Hey Buddy - I think you put this in the wrong forum

JP

Haha, yeah I figured this might be a better spot for it

 

[jimmymac]

Nice looking rig! Curious why neither you nor Mike have an aversion to drop tubes?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Nice looking rig! Curious why neither you nor Mike have an aversion to drop tubes?

Long drop tubes aren't really a big deal. I just prefer, whenever possible, to find a powder and load for a given cartridge that gives near perfect fill right where it wants to shoot. Yes, I'm picky..but aren't we all.

I like to have a comfortable pour and a fill rate that gives light compression, ideally. A long tube is simply getting the powder to fill the case more densely. So, if I then compress it a bit, it's actually pretty compressed. Over compressing effectively slows the burn rate but we're splitting hairs now. Not to mention, pushing bullets out, etc.

I've seen peple vibrate cases and even use a "powder compression die" in order to get enough of the powder of choice into their cartridge of choice. I won't go there. If that's what it takes, it makes more sense to me to blow the shoulder forward and optimize my powder of choice for that cartridge. Just my 2 cents.

I will say that I don't know why anyone would go to all that trouble to get enough powder into a 6ppc when a straight 6 Grendel does the same thing but without all of that trouble is easier to make and doesn't even require fire forming.

 

[JimPag]

Whoa! 32.0 grains of n120 with no pressure? The old stuff would almost certainly give LOTS of pressure. I have some new stuff that I've tested just a little and I could tell it was slower but that's more than I expected it to be! Also, how are you pouring it in? I despise long drop tubes and cases that are so full that they are hard to handle. That said, with the old stuff, 30.8 was very near tops in terms of pressure and about .100 from the top of the case mouth. That's dropping straight from the measure with a short tube. Someone I know has been having pressure problems with 2014 n120(IIRC) in his barrel at anything above about 30.5 gr. That surprised me because I've done a bunch of these and 30.5-30.8 has been a sweet spot fot many different lots of n120 powder, over 13 years now.

Clearly, what was once the most consistent powder I've ever seen has gone through some changes recently. I had a ton of older stuff made in the mid 90's and never had to change across many different lots. It appears that the burn rate has been made both faster and slower than what I shot forever, since. I'll be doing some more testing with his and mine..and I still have some of the old to use as a baseline.

Either way, I'm glad you like it and it's working well. I just want to get to what's up with the newer powder. I've seen it shoot great but I definitely want to see what up.

Thanks for posting this!--Mike Ezell

Boy Mike 32 is a stout load. I'm using 30.8 in my 30 Gorilla (35 degree shoulder instead of 30 Degree on Major) and it averages 3000 fps using a 108 grain bullet in a 17tw 23" Bartlein bbl. I have 25 lbs of the stuff, half of which is 2011 vintage and the other 2012. Honestly I've been shooting it off and on in matches since 2014 and it doesn't put up an x count like any of my 30BR's do especially my older Farley Black Widow which is my dedicated 100 yard and meter rifle saved for the bigger attended matches. I've shot that rifle twice this year, both at state matches and put up two 250-23x's for a 1st and 2nd place with it respectively. Best I've done with the Gorilla is a few 21x's.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Boy Mike 32 is a stout load. I'm using 30.8 in my 30 Gorilla (35 degree shoulder instead of 30 Degree on Major) and it averages 3000 fps using a 108 grain bullet in a 17tw 23" Bartlein bbl. I have 25 lbs of the stuff, half of which is 2011 vintage and the other 2012. Honestly I've been shooting it off and on in matches since 2014 and it doesn't put up an x count like any of my 30BR's do especially my older Farley Black Widow which is my dedicated 100 yard and meter rifle saved for the bigger attended matches. I've shot that rifle twice this year, both at state matches and put up two 250-23x's for a 1st and 2nd place with it respectively. Best I've done with the Gorilla is a few 21x's.

I think it's safe to say that the difference often comes down to bullets, barrels and tune.
I like to play with different stuff but I also think it's safe to say that I've done more 30 Majors than anyone and maybe even everyone else combined. With that said, it's still the most accurate cartridge, day in and day out, barrel and bullets, in and out...that I've ever seen or shot. And it also holds that world record!

Lots of stuff goes into any record and any cartridge that can even be mentioned in the same breath as a 6 ppc. I've shot a 30 Major since 2007 and have seen what it can do across a wide array of bullets and barrels. But, it does seem that my magic pixie dust has gone through some changes of late. Based on what I'm seeing and hearing, I think "drastic" is a fair enough term regarding the change in n120. It'll be a couple of weeks or so beforew I get back to it, after the UBR Nats, but I will find the difference in a few different lots vs my old and newer stuff soon.

 

[Hoodoo]

Boy Mike 32 is a stout load. I'm using 30.8 in my 30 Gorilla (35 degree shoulder instead of 30 Degree on Major) and it averages 3000 fps using a 108 grain bullet in a 17tw 23" Bartlein bbl. I have 25 lbs of the stuff, half of which is 2011 vintage and the other 2012. Honestly I've been shooting it off and on in matches since 2014 and it doesn't put up an x count like any of my 30BR's do especially my older Farley Black Widow which is my dedicated 100 yard and meter rifle saved for the bigger attended matches. I've shot that rifle twice this year, both at state matches and put up two 250-23x's for a 1st and 2nd place with it respectively. Best I've done with the Gorilla is a few 21x's.

I think that's the thing about this cartridge though. Is it better than a 30BR? Maybe not, but has anyone (other than maybe Mike) put enough time and effort into testing a Major vs a 30BR to truly know which one outperforms which? I doubt it.

The benefit to a Major is being able to use a PPC boltface, and not give anything up to a 30BR, while not having to mess around with brass. Rebate rims, open bolt face etc. Similar velocity, bullet selection, powder selection, and less recoil.

But that's really all this is, just another option. If it's not your cup of tea, don't drink it?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I think that's the thing about this cartridge though. Is it better than a 30BR? Maybe not, but has anyone (other than maybe Mike) put enough time and effort into testing a Major vs a 30BR to truly know which one outperforms which? I doubt it.

The benefit to a Major is being able to use a PPC boltface, and not give anything up to a 30BR, while not having to mess around with brass. Rebate rims, open bolt face etc. Similar velocity, bullet selection, powder selection, and less recoil.

But that's really all this is, just another option. If it's not your cup of tea, don't drink it?

Very well said!

I've said this before but I'll say it again now...it's 5:27 pm here now and if I thought a 30BR gave me a better chance of WINNING....I'd be shooting one before dark tonight.

No, there's not much difference at all but I have done a ton of both. Maybe not a literal ton...but maybe so....and I'm not taking anything away from a very fine 30BR cartridge..or anything else.

This change in n120 may or may not change my opinion on this.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

FWIW, I recently chambered a barrel in 30 Major for testing that I had the barrel maker do in a .299 bore! It shoots very well but it took more than my std 30.8 to get it there, even in that tight bore barrel , with the new n120. That should've got me thinking, more than it did.

 

[Hoodoo]

FWIW, I recently chambered a barrel in 30 Major for testing that I had the barrel maker do in a .299 bore! It shoots very well but it took more than my std 30.8 to get it there, even in that tight bore barrel , with the new n120. That should've got me thinking, more than it did.

What did you end up at charge wise?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

What did you end up at charge wise?

LESS THAN 32.0!
I'll elaborate a little and say that 32.0 of the old n120 would lock the bolt up!!!!
30.8 was my go to load and 31.2 would wreck brass in hot weather. That should tell ya something.
Those loads were with more std bores.

 

[Hoodoo]

LESS THAN 32.0!
I'll elaborate a little and say that 32.0 of the old n120 would lock the bolt up!!!!
30.8 was my go to load and 31.2 would wreck brass in hot weather. That should tell ya something.

I'll check my load tonight and make sure I'm giving you the correct weight.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'll check my load tonight and make sure I'm giving you the correct weight.

You're probably right. The last time I shot the new n120 I was at 31.2 in a .299 bore barrel. It shot well and had no pressure signs. Those are not recommended loads, especially since there seems to be a big difference in recent lots.

 

[Hoodoo]

You're probably right. The last time I shot the new n120 I was at 31.2 in a .299 bore barrel. It shot well and had no pressure signs. Those are not recommended loads, especially since there seems to be a big difference in recent lots.

31.5 on the dot Mike...

 

[Sniper338]

That grendel case is hard to beat.