30 Cal belly up?

[Backwoods Blacksmith]

I am an old fan of the 30-06 and 30-06 AI. I have had some fun with the .308. But what is the deal with the 6mm, 6.5mm and the 7mm. I just read that they are shooting these out to 1000 yds in F class.
I am a long time DCM shooter and am now haveing to go scoped due to can't seeing the front sight.
What am I missing? Also, I don't care to blueprint another Mauser, Remington, or Winchester action.
What else is avaliable action wise?
Any information wouls help.
Thanks.

 

[ScottMcc]

I too thought lr shooting was properly done with 300 win mags and weatherby mags, so I was surprised to learn that nowadays its being done with 6.5-284's and 7mm wsm's. The short, fat rounds have less velocity variation (es and sd) and are more accurate.

 

[280nosler]

The F-class guys decided to trade wind bucking for smaller diameter bullets that have gotten much better over the past 15 years. There are some 6.5's with G1's ballistics of .550 (Berger 130 Match), whereas the SMK 175's are (I think) .503, and only over 2850 fps. The 7mm's have caught some wind and are a good at bucking wind, and have good ballistics to boot.

That said, the 30 cal is still an easy round to get into (both 308 and 30-06) and I don't think they are going anywhere fast. As of last year the 30-06 was still the best rifle reloading die caliber sold, so that means people are still buying them. The 308 is a natural because it is available in so many rifles, and has less kick, and has something like 117 factory loaded options from varmint to moose loads.

Yea, I don't see it going anywhere, just don't expect it to get as much air play in F class.

 

[CobraRed]

The F-class guys decided to trade wind bucking for smaller diameter bullets that have gotten much better over the past 15 years. There are some 6.5's with G1's ballistics of .550 (Berger 130 Match), whereas the SMK 175's are (I think) .503, and only over 2850 fps. The 7mm's have caught some wind and are a good at bucking wind, and have good ballistics to boot.

That said, the 30 cal is still an easy round to get into (both 308 and 30-06) and I don't think they are going anywhere fast. As of last year the 30-06 was still the best rifle reloading die caliber sold, so that means people are still buying them. The 308 is a natural because it is available in so many rifles, and has less kick, and has something like 117 factory loaded options from varmint to moose loads.

Yea, I don't see it going anywhere, just don't expect it to get as much air play in F class.

My 6.5 prefers 140's, we're talkin .612 G1 and .313 G7

 

[DRNewcomb]

I think many people feel that if the 6.5 can reach out and do the job at 1000, why get yourself beat up by a big .30 cal? At some point fatigue becomes a factor. Low recoil is good. Similar to all the folks who started shooting .223 in NMC matches in the early '90s. Being able to hold the rifle like a .22 rimfire has advantages.

 

[Backwoods Blacksmith]

I started shooting with a Springfield 03. I have never felt that it was recoil intensive. After 1000's of rounds in bolts, Garands, and M-14s. One thing I never worried about was recoil and I never worried that my 180 grainers would be in the black at 1000yds. I have also shot 1000s of 5.56 and until I built a 223AI I never considered shooting it over 300yds.
After considering barrel life and ballistics I think I will stick with the 308 for over 600.
Now what can anyone tell me about actions for a medium heavy varmit rifle?

 

[mysticplayer]

F class is about getting the highest LR ballistics for the lowest amount of recoil and longest bore life. Better bullets in smaller cals drove the race to use smaller cals.

now the 30cal is coming back into its own and several top shooters are taking a serious look at driving boomers downrange.

for many, the recoil levels are way to high to maintain accuracy over the long relays F class demands.

So there will be a tug for a bit as the shooters figure out what they can SCORE well with.

My suspicion is that it will be a 7mm and 30cal world in Open.

308 is still the dominant chambering in FTR.

Jerry

 

[jonbearman]

Talk to german salzaar about .30's being outdated.I wouldnt give it a thought.

 

[Backwoods Blacksmith]

Why do I not see anything about the 6mm Remington. I know that the 243 Winchester can be rough on barrels.
Are the short fat cases doing that well? I would have thought that the overbore effect would have shortened barrel life.

 

[BradY]

Action wise there are many to choose from. There are clones of the rem700 available that dont need truing and still use readily available parts and triggers. Probably your cheapest and easiest option is to go one of them- Stiller/Stolle/Pierce/Defiance are some brands to look at.

If your looking at a fun caliber that has little recoil but offers better ballistics than a 308, take a good hard look at the 6mm BR with 105gr bullets. You will need a 1:8 twist barrel. A great fun round more than capable of making 1000yds and its deadly accurate. Otherwise the 6.5x47 lapua with 130gr bullets is very good also. If you want ultimate wind bucking ability your going to be looking at a 300WSM or 7mmWSM and 230 or 180gr bullets respectively. Whether you are willing to go down that road is another thing as recoil will be up for one and barrel life down for the other. A straight 284W and the 168 or 180gr bullets is also another option for good barrel life and good ballistics.

 

[abishai]

30 cals are great for killing things. We are only trying to make a hole in paper. My 6 XC pushing 115 Dtacs at 3050 ( .585 G1 bc ..... ish ) will out run a 300 win mag all day long.

 

[NateG]

Until very recently, when the new heavyweight 30 cals came out, the 7mms offered both better ballistics (less wind drift, for known-distance paper-punching drop and terminal energy don't matter) and less recoil than the .30 cals. The old big .30 cal bullets (220 and 240 matchkings) are shaped more like a football than a modern long range bullet, and they gave up enough drag due to their shape to (more than) offset the ballistic benefit of being much heavier, but still getting the recoil cost of being much heavier.

The new heavy .30 cals (Berger Hybrids in 215 and 230, possibly including the 200 grain) make the big .30 cal cartridges at least offer a ballistic edge over the 7mms. Whether they're worth the recoil is a different question. But there are a few F/Open shooters who are playing around with .30 cal short mags--it may be the next big thing, or not. The 30 cals are likely to offer a bit more barrel life than the 7 mags, better ballistics, and much, much more recoil.

I will be *very* surprised if there are any serious prone (sling) shooters who move to the 30 cals. (There are a few who never moved away from the .300WM to the new-fangled 6.5-284, however) There are some, to include the AMU, who have been using 7RSAUMs, and quite a few using straight .284s and .284 Shehanes--but I can also think of one prominent .284 proponent who has moved to the .243 for less recoil. The recoil is a much bigger factor in the prone game; it's much harder to control in a 14ish pound gun supported by a sling than on a 22 pound F/Open gun on a rest.

 

[Steve Blair]

The recoil is a much bigger factor in the prone game; it's much harder to control in a 14ish pound gun supported by a sling than on a 22 pound F/Open gun on a rest.

[br]
Very true, Nate. I shot a 14# match rifle in .300 WM back in the eighties. With 190 Sierras, it wasn't too bad. When I shot the 220 Sierras, every shot felt like a punch in the face. Even with two t-shirts, a sweatshirt and my old 10-X coat, it still hurt.

 

[DRNewcomb]

If I were building a rifle today, I think I'd have to pick between .223, .308 and something 6.5 mm (e.g. 6.5x47 Lapua). The first two because they are standard military & F-TR calibers. The last because I've seen so much good shooting done with that caliber. I seriously doubt I'd go with anything bigger than .308 Win. But that's just me and I'm a wimp. I was an early "mouse gun" adopter when my clubs had regular NMC matches. I do better with less recoil.

 

[stubbicatt]

For serious competitors, whatever it takes to win will likely be their choice. As I understand it, for F T/R one must use either 223 or 308. For open F Class shooting, whatever you choose is ok. IF muzzle brakes were allowed, then I suspect many competitors would consider harder kicking chamberings than they do now.

If you shoot 30's well, then that is what you should choose. To me, an experienced shooter who knows what his rifle/bullet combination will do in any given wind condition has a leg up on someone like me, no matter what he shoots. Even a "non competitive" cartridge will requite itself very well with the right shooter pulling the trigger.

Other contributors have made pretty good arguments for the "dinky bores" already.

 

[Backwoods Blacksmith]

After reading the helpful advice and other reference material I am thinking of building a rifle in 6mm Br or the 6mm Dasher. Is the Dasher an Improved version of the BR? I have found several rifles chambered in the BR but most of them are too heavy to tote around. I don't want a bench rest gun. Something in the 10lb range. My 223AI is 10 1/2lb and believe me that is heavy enough. On the east side of Oregon many shots at chucks and coyotes exceed 600yds Which is really stretching the 223.
My thanks to all that supplied comments.

 

[BAT man]

You may be surprised at your results with a fast twist premium barrel and a heavy high bc bullet out of your .223, whole different animal.

 

[R.Morehouse]

I am pretty new at this and have not yet done any comp. shooting. Over the next year I will be having built a 6cm and then we will see. But for now I am having a HOOT with the 30cal BOOMERS. Recoil can be managed. Something about my 16lb RUM with a quality brake and a 208 A-Max or 230 Breger crushing the wind ( and targets or groundhogs) with Howitzer like blast blowing the grass on either side of me that just SCREAMS fun,fun,fun.............

 

[Backwoods Blacksmith]

I have a HEAVY gun. 27lb 50BMG. And it is as much a pain to shoot as it is a joy to shoot. Toting it to the fire point sucks. Shooting it. OH MAN.
I also have a 30-06 AI that weighs 12lbs Looove it!!!!!!!!. 180 smk 3050 fps deadly.
My light gun is a 223 AI 60 Nosler BT 3340fps Ugly on PD and RC. 8 1/2 lbs
Now I have the itch for a 6mm just to stretch the lite gun out a little.
Looking at the 6BR or the 6 dasher. Coyotes in eastern Oregon are getting educated. And chucks at 500 are ho hum.
I seriously doubt that I will ever shoot another match but I love long range shooting.

 

[jnyfeler]

I shoot 6BR for mid range and absolutely love it. No fire forming to wildcat dimensions, and the accuracy could not be better. Still accurate at 1,000 yards, but if the wind is switching, there'll be smoke coming off your windage knob.

At 1,000 yards, I'm still a .30 cal. guy. Switched from .300 Win Mag to .300 WSM about 10 years ago and said good riddance to the belt. Recoil is not bad up to the 210 grainers, but I definitely notice the increase in recoil with the Sierra 220s. There are better bullets ballistically than the 220 Sierra, but man, it shoots nice small groups! Anyway, I guess I just like the .30 cal at long range. The rifle is a 40X solid bottom action, Master Class fiberglass prone stock and a Krieger 1:9" twist 30" bbl. Put together by Warner Tool Co. and Alex Sitman at Master Class Stocks.

Jeff