30 BR-what are the downsides for using in F Class?
- Thread starter SDDasher
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bobinpa
Gold $$ Contributor
FWIW, I usually run 116 gr Euber's in mine, BUT.... it also likes 125gr Nosler BTs. The Noslers as you probably know have a little BT on them, which does extend the range just a little. I have always been curious to see what 135gr SMKs would do too. I run the Euber right at 3000 fps and the Noslers drop it to 2878 fps so I'm guessing the 135s might still be around 2750 or so. Who knows, the 135s might just be too much for it to stabilize regardless of velocity. The Nosler groups do open up to the mid 3's, so 135s might end up being half inch groups :-[
Ha! Ha! Got that same teeshirt a coupla weeks back - in the UKBRA 'Fly Shoot' covered in the daily Bulletin last week. Took my 6.5X47L BR Light Gun with 36X42BR Sightron mounted back and way up high and in a relatively short Shehane Tracker BR stock all set up for for bench shooting to a match where you shoot prone. (There were good reasons, just don't ask.) Anyway, the scope socked me above the eye on the first sighter - difficult to recover from a great start like that!
Been watching Kathy's photos of your Alaskan holiday on FB - what an experience!
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I have a .30BR made for heavy bullets (from 155gr. to 180gr.) and shot it a lot at local 300 meters matches.
I made this rifles for local Metallic Silhouette matches (200meters), but used it sometimes at 100 and even 300 meters, with Berger 155.5gr. and Sierra 155gr. (#2156). They are vey, very accurate, but the initial velocity, at around 2.500fps is much less than a simple .308win with the same bullet (near 2.900fps), so I know I will be in big disadvantage over everyone shooting from .308win to 6mmBR and others calibers.
Mind you, it is fun to shoot a .30BR, but just not if you want to win the F-Class match, even at Mid Range.
LRCampos.
I have a .30BR made for heavy bullets (from 155gr. to 180gr.) and shot it a lot at local 300 meters matches.
I made this rifles for local Metallic Silhouette matches (200meters), but used it sometimes at 100 and even 300 meters, with Berger 155.5gr. and Sierra 155gr. (#2156). They are vey, very accurate, but the initial velocity, at around 2.500fps is much less than a simple .308win with the same bullet (near 2.900fps), so I know I will be in big disadvantage over everyone shooting from .308win to 6mmBR and others calibers.
Mind you, it is fun to shoot a .30BR, but just not if you want to win the F-Class match, even at Mid Range.
LRCampos.
TAJ45
Silver $$ Contributor
Allow me to try and sift through this statement in a logical manner:
"Just because a cartridge doesn't have the ballistics of another doesn't make it the wrong cartridge for the job if the shooter has the skills to shoot it accurately."
If I, as a toolmaker, have the ability to saw and file a piece of metal to a tolerance of +/- .003" and I have an entire machine shop at my disposal, I would indeed be using the wrong tool(s) if I didn't use the mill.
Orrrr, having a 6 oz hammer (fiberglass handle) and the ability to drive a 16d nail but a 22 oz ripping hammer is available - I would indeed be using the wrong tool for each job. Having the skill set to accomplish is just that, a personal skill set. In no way does a skill set change the inherent effectiveness of the tool.
So, it is the "wrong cartridge for the app." Many an elephant has fallen to the lowly 7x57 in the early 20th century but by no means does it make it the "right cartridge" for the job, unless your name may have been Bell. He used the .275 Rigby (7x57) and here is a great short read: http://eccentriccowboy.blogspot.com/2014/04/walter-dalrymple-maitland-bell-of.htm
In all cases it was the wrong tool or the wrong cartridge whose shortcomings were compensated for with skill of the individual.
Nice journey through the shop and on into Kenya, eh? I remember the first time I had a guy tell me he was shooting a .30 Boo Boo at a 600 match at Piedmont........I though he had hold of my leg, but I was wrong.
"Just because a cartridge doesn't have the ballistics of another doesn't make it the wrong cartridge for the job if the shooter has the skills to shoot it accurately."
If I, as a toolmaker, have the ability to saw and file a piece of metal to a tolerance of +/- .003" and I have an entire machine shop at my disposal, I would indeed be using the wrong tool(s) if I didn't use the mill.
Orrrr, having a 6 oz hammer (fiberglass handle) and the ability to drive a 16d nail but a 22 oz ripping hammer is available - I would indeed be using the wrong tool for each job. Having the skill set to accomplish is just that, a personal skill set. In no way does a skill set change the inherent effectiveness of the tool.
So, it is the "wrong cartridge for the app." Many an elephant has fallen to the lowly 7x57 in the early 20th century but by no means does it make it the "right cartridge" for the job, unless your name may have been Bell. He used the .275 Rigby (7x57) and here is a great short read: http://eccentriccowboy.blogspot.com/2014/04/walter-dalrymple-maitland-bell-of.htm
In all cases it was the wrong tool or the wrong cartridge whose shortcomings were compensated for with skill of the individual.
Nice journey through the shop and on into Kenya, eh? I remember the first time I had a guy tell me he was shooting a .30 Boo Boo at a 600 match at Piedmont........I though he had hold of my leg, but I was wrong.
LRCampos said:
I had a leaning towards trying a 7mm BR for dual purpose mid-range BR and F, but whichever way I played QuickLOAD and the ballistics programs, it just can't produce enough velocity to be fully competitive despite 7mm bullets' ballistic advantages over .30. I'm sure it would have been great fun to shoot, low recoil, and likely very accurate but you've got to have the basic ballistics right for the purpose, or as TAJ45 says the right tool for the job - at least something approximating to the right tool.
It also shows up how calibre / bullet has to be matched to the case. 6mm works superbly as we all know in the BR case and its improved versions, but 6.5mm, even more so 7mm and .30 are just too much bullet for the powder charge. Go up to the 308 size case and 6.5mm outperforms 7mm and .30 although the 6.5 v 7mm permutations are narrowing in performance. (I'm attempting to see if 7mm-08 in long-throat form can be made to match / beat 6.5 Creedmoor and 260 in mid-range, but I suspect that the best I'll see is a ballistic draw in which heavier recoil is the price for longer barrel life.)
It's easy to forget that .308 Win is generally uncompetitive even with a 56gn water capacity case, Palma brass and bullets with BCs that would have been called science fiction if you'd prophesied them ten years ago! Yes, FTR can and sometimes does give F-Open a run for its money in short/mid-range F matches, even L-R matches, if the conditions are steady, but as soon as things get difficult, the scores gap opens up. The sole reason that 308 is so widely used and has been so heavily developed is that it has its own class shared with 223 Rem. I've shot F long enough to remember the early days when most people started out with 308s and there was only one F-Class for everything. As soon as the higher MV 6.5s (6.5X55, 6.5X55AI, and then the 6.5-284) appeared, 308 Win users were at a disadvantage. Within a couple of seasons half or two thirds of entries shooting 308s dwindled to hardly any even in club matches - then FTR was introduced reviving its fortunes.
I have a 6 Br built on a RPA action 30in. Border barrel , shooting a 105 Sener bullet over 30 gr of VARGET , LAPUA cases. Over the life of this rifle ( 1200 rounds so far ) have shot a possible at all ranges at Bisley from 300 yds to 1100 yds . I am no more than a club shooter . Looking back at my score book it's true the days were carm .Im not saying it bucks the wind like a 7mm but those of us who can no longer take the recoil of the big bangers enjoy shooting one of the many 6mm,s
Standard NRA targets ., the best I have shot on F targets 74.8 at 300yds and 72 .4 at 1000yds I have never shot 1100 yds on F targets . What I was trying to say was the 6 Br is a great little round and for club shoots it does just fine
I couldn't agree more, and I shot 6BR for a couple of seasons at GB national league level until FTR was introduced. Even back then though, it was outclassed from 600 yards and beyond once the 6.5-284 Norma came into common use unless one shot in a flat calm, or very steady wind.
We have a lot of 6BR use at Diggle, although virtually all short and mid-range in F. Where it can still score is in 600 and 1,000 yard benchrest because of the furious shot rate getting the 5 rounds off in 20 odd seconds and catching steady wind conditions. In fact the smallest ever UKBRA 1,000 yard group was shot three weeks ago at Diggle with a 6BR, but it doesn't count as a record score since it was a 5-shot group from a 'Heavy Gun', a class which requires 10-round groups.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/TargetShooter?fref=ts
However, we're not talking 6BR or similar sixes here. By using the small BR case with 30 cal bullets, both internal and external ballistics situations are dramatically changed. The .30BR is a marvellous specialised short-range benchrest cartridge, but at 1,000 yards, the user of any half decent 308 Win FTR rifle would walk all over the BR shooter's efforts in an F-Class competition (as would its 6BR version). And, that assumes the .30BR shooter actually found the target frame at all at 1,000 which I wouldn't like to guarantee.
We have a lot of 6BR use at Diggle, although virtually all short and mid-range in F. Where it can still score is in 600 and 1,000 yard benchrest because of the furious shot rate getting the 5 rounds off in 20 odd seconds and catching steady wind conditions. In fact the smallest ever UKBRA 1,000 yard group was shot three weeks ago at Diggle with a 6BR, but it doesn't count as a record score since it was a 5-shot group from a 'Heavy Gun', a class which requires 10-round groups.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/TargetShooter?fref=ts
However, we're not talking 6BR or similar sixes here. By using the small BR case with 30 cal bullets, both internal and external ballistics situations are dramatically changed. The .30BR is a marvellous specialised short-range benchrest cartridge, but at 1,000 yards, the user of any half decent 308 Win FTR rifle would walk all over the BR shooter's efforts in an F-Class competition (as would its 6BR version). And, that assumes the .30BR shooter actually found the target frame at all at 1,000 which I wouldn't like to guarantee.
JRS said:With a BC of .300 or lessand the 80 grain .224 with a BC of .445, give or take. Not hard to ascertain that outcome :
I can tell you all about 80 smk's (.425 bc) at 1000 yards. I'll start with the first 3 shots for record, 10, left 8, 7 on the other side. Bismarck is no treat to shoot at though but, I still have fun.
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