30-378 WBY Mag vs 300 Norma Mag

[dkhunt14]

My plan worked. I made you reveal reality. That's a 10 shot group. My 30 shot one was about 5 inches in a more stable position for me.

My point is, benchrest rifle accuracy average is larger than what records show. It's rarely mentioned. The biggest groups are usually kept secret. I'm done here.

If it is a six inch agg, it is a 6 inch average. I am sure you shot some really big groups in your time. Some days, conditions don't allow small and if you are a shooter you know that. Also some ranges dont allow constant small groups and again if you are a shooter, you also know that.

You need to just realize the magnum belted cases are dead in Longrange BR. They died a quick death about 10 years ago when the 300 WSM showed up. It took a year or two for them to completely disappear becuase a few OLD timers just couldnt give up, because their ego wouldnt let them. Finally once they got their butts handed to them enough, they switched also. Matt

 

[Bart B.]

My point is, benchrest rifle accuracy average is larger than what records show. It's rarely mentioned. The biggest groups are usually kept secret. I'm done here

 

[6MMsteve]

a 30-378 can be improved somewhat wiith a 35 or 40 d shoulder

 

[Bart B.]

You need to just realize the magnum belted cases are dead in Longrange BR. They died a quick death about 10 years ago when the 300 WSM showed up.

Magnum belted cases for long range prone matches declined to almost zero in the 1990's when the 6.5x284 out scored them. Much easier to reload, too.

 

[Bart B.]

We only shoot one target per event. That makes aggs harder, 10 matches over a six month period. I gave an example, same guns just different chambers. The beltless cases dominate now. Matt

I know that.

 

[dmoran]

I was told back in 1986.....

That's nothing, @Bart B. claims he was averaging that from 20-shots with 308's back then.

 

[dkhunt14]

Sorry to the OP for the thread getting sidetracked. The 30-378 and shortened versions like Howard Wolfe's were used alot back in the 80's. They disappeared before Weatherby made it a factory clambering. Guys figured out they had too much capacity for accurate 10 shot groups at 1000. The speeds now are more like 2850 for the WSM and 3000 for the sixes. It seems if you go over 3000, accuracy goes away and fliers happen.

I hear the 300 Norma has great accuracy potential but the downside was brass. New brass from other companies are availble now. I would pick the Norma over the Weatherby for accuracy and barrel life. Now if longrange hunting, that is a different game. Matt

 

[Bart B.]

Wanna see some huge groups?

Watch a benchrester slung up in an NRA prone position with his record setting bench rig fitted with metallic sights. Or scoped.

 

[Bart B.]

I was told back in 1986 by Fritz Gobbelr not to come to Pa 1000 unless your gun shot under 7in ....wrong then...... but these days yes it better shoot under 7 or you will go home crying lol

Then most of the competitors went home crying. None shot under 7 all the time.

 

[dkhunt14]

I was told back in 1986 by Fritz Gobbelr not to come to Pa 1000 unless your gun shot under 7in ....wrong then...... but these days yes it better shoot under 7 or you will go home crying lol ...................... EDIT I picked a name from gun digest and started calling and finally got this guy to answer Joe Doebbler or something like that, that was the only way to commmunicate back in the day

Sadly Joe died a few years ago from Colon Cancer. He was in the game along time and had just built a new Dasher. I remember he shot a 100 score with it about the second or third time out. He was so happy because it was his first 100 in all the years of shooting there. It is one of the things that I will not forget. Matt

 

[dmoran]

Watch a benchrester slung up in an NRA prone position with his record setting bench rig fitted with metallic sights. Or scoped.

 

[dkhunt14]

Wanna see some huge groups?

Watch a benchrester slung up in an NRA prone position with his record setting bench rig fitted with metallic sights. Or scoped.

Bart, I welcome you you to come to Williamsport and bring your gun. If you agg 6 inches for ten 10 shot targets, I will pay all your expenses. You can shoot any way you like and take your time, I dont care if you bring a rail gun. I know the range and what it does to shooters.

I have seen alot of guns over the years. We averaged from 150 to 200 shooters every other week. There are very few guns that can agg 6 inches there. I dont see why you constantly attack BR shooters or certain people. Matt

 

[Bart B.]

I have seen alot of guns over the years. We averaged from 150 to 200 shooters every other week. There are very few guns that can agg 6 inches there. I dont see why you constantly attack BR shooters or certain people.

This is a refreshing post. I totally agree. I challenge claims that imply otherwise. Tried to get anyone to say what their best barrel averaged and extreme spreads are in matches. That's typically kept a secret to outsiders. Last I checked the PA 1000 record aggs with 10 groups is 6 +/- .1 inch. No idea what the next ten larger ones agg'd. Nor the biggest single group in each agg.

Very few guns agg 6 or under in any 1K shoot. Biggest groups in aggs are typically a fourth or a third bigger than average.

Must be an oath benchrest folks swear to; never divulge the size of largest group in aggs.

 

[dmoran]

This is a refreshing post. I totally agree. I challenge claims that imply otherwise. Tried to get anyone to say what their best barrel averaged and extreme spreads are in matches. That's typically kept a secret to outsiders. Last I checked the PA 1000 record aggs with 10 groups is 6 +/- .1 inch. No idea what the next ten larger ones agg'd. Nor the biggest single group in each agg.

Very few guns agg 6 or under in any 1K shoot. Biggest groups in aggs are typically a fourth or a third bigger than average.

Must be an oath benchrest folks swear to; never divulge the size of largest group in aggs.

Stop it already... the hole your digging is turning into a mine shaft !.!.!

You don't get it.... and you do not understand Benchrest at all.

Every target a person shoots at a Benchrest match (big and small / best to worse) are posted in the results for every match.
It is the same for every discipline (SR, LR, SC, Rim-fire). All the targets are scored, reported, and count toward a match finish.

The Williamsport Penn1000 website is very user-friendly to see every persons stats broken down individually. For instance, when on the Results, all you have to do is click on any persons name in the Results and it will take you to a sub page with each individual stats, showing there results to every target they shoot, points they earned, and aggregate standings for each season to both group and score.
Example below is Matt's 2018 Heavy Gun season results:



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[dmoran]

@Bart B.

Below is more aggregate results (all the group sizes for a season, from every relay target), from another 1000yd ranges website:

 

[Forum Boss]

This thread has become pointless. LOCKED.