Ive heard that the 06 can rival the 308 in accuracy.The rifle Im looking at are the new Ruger Hawkeye 77.The 06 comes with a Hogue overmold stock with full aluminum pillar bedding a 22inch barrel with a 1 in 10 twist. The 308 is in a Ruger stock with the same barrel length and twist rate.Nothing heavier than 168 grains in weight will be shot through the rifle. With a 22 inch barrel will there be any difference between the two catridges? Will the 06 have slightly higher velocities? Will the 06 make a better choice for an accurate hunting rifle because of the Houge stock?
30-06 vs 308
- Thread starter GlennGTR
- Start date
You may get 100 fps more velocity with the 30-06 over the 308 with same bullet weight but it will take more powder to do it or equal the velocity of the 308 in the 30-06. The 308 rifle will most likely be lighter in weight because it is a short action. The only advantage I have ever seen that the 30-06 has over the 308 is with bullets weighing over 180 grs. With the type of heavy constricted bullets we have now you really don't need a bullet that weighs over 180 grs on game. If you are just going to hunt Elk and smaller game I would go with the 308 because it will make a more compact and lighter hunting rig. just my 2 cents worth. Oh! If you hand load try the Nosler 125 Ballistic Tip with 46 grs IMR 4895 in the 308 for deer. It drops them in their tracks.
Alright I will say this one time, this is one thing I am so sick of. A 30-06 is superior to a .308 in every way. Yes, that includes bolt length. The standard Remington 700, T3, WBY Mark V, and Savage do the same thing to a longer action, they make the action slide better so that you don't have to deal with that problem of your action speed. Now I don't know about anywhere else but at Cabela's, and Reeds, you can buy a Remington Model 750 Semi-Auto for 500$, the same price as a T3. The 30-06 also hits a lot harder,I mean a .270 hits harder than any .308 bullet and if you know ballistics, a 30-06 hits harder than a .270), it's flatter shooting, and is a cheaper and more effective cartridge.
you're not comparing rifles as much as you are stocks, both the 06 and the 308 are great rounds. for all around hunting a deer wouldn't know which rifle the bullet came from.what stock do you like better? either round for deer is pretty darn near the same.let us know how it works out for you. cliffe
CatShooter
GlennGTR said:
In the guns you are looking at, the inherent accuracy of either round will not be approached.
In top grade match rifles, with equal grade components, both are equally accurate.
.
CatShooter said:
I agree with that advice 100%. Either rifle will shoot 1/4 moa if the action is trued and the factory barrel is replaced.
The bigger difference imo is the recoil will be heavier on the 30-06. I'm limited to 300 yards at my local range, so I would a 308. Unless you have access to a 1200 yard range, the extra 100-200 fps of a 30-06 won't make much difference.
CatShooter
Brooks454 said:
That article compares 1960 performance of the 06 to later years performance or the 308... a pretty poor comparison.
I own a quality 30-06 match rifle and several 308 match rifles, they will all hold the same size groups, with the same quality brass and bullets. If you looked at the targets WITHOUT knowing which was shot with which rifle, you could never tell the difference.
To say that an 30-06 match rifle is only capable of 1 moa is silly.
A decent 30-06 hunting rifle is capable of better than 1 moa!
.
IMHO
The author of that article certainly seems to have the credentials, however I have a hard time wrapping my brain around his statement that the .308 is 50-60% more accurate than the 30-06. Must have something to with with the particular weapons used. In identical bolt actions there shouldn't be much more than a gnat's hair of difference,if even that much) between the two. Minor differences in case design simply doesn't affect accuracy to that level.
Tom
The author of that article certainly seems to have the credentials, however I have a hard time wrapping my brain around his statement that the .308 is 50-60% more accurate than the 30-06. Must have something to with with the particular weapons used. In identical bolt actions there shouldn't be much more than a gnat's hair of difference,if even that much) between the two. Minor differences in case design simply doesn't affect accuracy to that level.
Tom
The difference in powder capacity is significant enough.
CatShooter
Tommie said:
I don't know what his "Creds" are... but this is the fly in the ointment:
Military arsenals who produced match and service ammo in both 7.62mm and 30 caliber have fired thousands of test rounds/groups with both. They also found out that with both ammo types, the smallest groups were with the 7.62 by about 50 to 60 percent. M1 rifles in 7.62 shot about twice as small of groups as .30 M1s at all ranges. When the M14 was first used, there were some .30-06 M1 rifles that would shoot more accurately. It took the service teams several years to perfect the methods of making M14s shoot well, but when they did, they shot as good as M1s in 7.62.
His comments are based on the M1 Garand and the M-14 service rifles.
Neither of these rifles is noted to be "accurate"... the M-14 was designed to be a machine gun!!,Duh)
As to the case capacities, "The difference in powder capacity is significant enough."...
... the 308 is a ~48 grain case, the 30-06 is a ~59 grain case, and the 300 Win Mag is a ~76 grain case,That's 60% larger than the 308!!).
The 300 WM has won more 1,000 yard matches than all other calibers combined.
So case capacity doesn't appear to have anything to do with it.
Build three bolt guns in these calibers, with top quality actions, barrels, and components, and they will shoot so close to each other they you will not be able to tell the difference... and at 1,000 yds, all things being equal, speed and weight wins!
.
Creds, as shown at the end of the article:
"Mr. Bobbitt did not submit this article to Sniper Country, but rather to the rec.guns newsgroup on February 7, 1997. He has authored many postings to rec.guns, and is highly qualified to comment on a variety of shooting-related topics. Among his many distinctions within the shooting community, he once fired a 20-shot, 3.325" group at 800 yards!,Refer to the advertisement for Krieger Barrels in the May, 1997, issue of Precision Shooting magazine.) Mr. Bobbitt's other postings to rec.guns can be found by doing an author's profile on his name via the Deja News service. This rec.guns posting was acquired via Deja News"
Again, I don't doubt what the author reports. The context in which the article is written must be taken into account. In the types of weapons he's discussing, I have no doubt Mr. Bobbitt is reporting factual findings. But I believe that the article is making a case that the .308 is more accurate when shooting within the guidelines of NRA High Power shooting. To make the assumption that this proves a huge accuracy advantage over the 30-06 in all disciplines or applications is a huge leap.
When in doubt, I refer back to P.O. Ackley's writings. Mr. Ackley stated on numerous occasions that when all other things are equal, moderate changes in case design or capacity have negligible impact upon accuracy. My experience confirms this.
It's possible that the .308 might possess a theoretical,and nearly unmeasurable) accuracy advantage over the '06 in otherwise identical bolt rifles. Maybe, but my and most others' experience with both chamberings doesn't confirm any massive difference between the two. Indeed, I wish 50-60% gains in accuracy were no more difficult than shortening a cartridge by half an inch!
Tom
"Mr. Bobbitt did not submit this article to Sniper Country, but rather to the rec.guns newsgroup on February 7, 1997. He has authored many postings to rec.guns, and is highly qualified to comment on a variety of shooting-related topics. Among his many distinctions within the shooting community, he once fired a 20-shot, 3.325" group at 800 yards!,Refer to the advertisement for Krieger Barrels in the May, 1997, issue of Precision Shooting magazine.) Mr. Bobbitt's other postings to rec.guns can be found by doing an author's profile on his name via the Deja News service. This rec.guns posting was acquired via Deja News"
Again, I don't doubt what the author reports. The context in which the article is written must be taken into account. In the types of weapons he's discussing, I have no doubt Mr. Bobbitt is reporting factual findings. But I believe that the article is making a case that the .308 is more accurate when shooting within the guidelines of NRA High Power shooting. To make the assumption that this proves a huge accuracy advantage over the 30-06 in all disciplines or applications is a huge leap.
When in doubt, I refer back to P.O. Ackley's writings. Mr. Ackley stated on numerous occasions that when all other things are equal, moderate changes in case design or capacity have negligible impact upon accuracy. My experience confirms this.
It's possible that the .308 might possess a theoretical,and nearly unmeasurable) accuracy advantage over the '06 in otherwise identical bolt rifles. Maybe, but my and most others' experience with both chamberings doesn't confirm any massive difference between the two. Indeed, I wish 50-60% gains in accuracy were no more difficult than shortening a cartridge by half an inch!
Tom
So case capacity doesn't appear to have anything to do with it.
What is 6mmBR accuracy about if not case capacity? Quality brass can be had for other cartridges.
What is 6mmBR accuracy about if not case capacity? Quality brass can be had for other cartridges.
I bet if you took a 30-06 and shot it from a machine rest against a 308 the groups would be so close as to not matter in match shooting. i think the only 2 real considerations would be barrel life,match rifles) and weight/ease of handling,hunting rifles). i'm just saying if you spit on the ground its worth more than the difference in the two. but hey isn't it all about bs'n about what you like and dislike, just makes for interesting conversation. if I had to choose from those two if it were a hunting gun i'd pick the 30-06, it hits harder. for a match rifle i'd pick the 308 for barrel life and more efficiant powder use. my $.02________treeman
As for the hunting part of the discusion,anything more than a string and a stick is overkill!
Just stirrin the pot.
Just stirrin the pot.Glenn - there must be a full moon out tonight - your question about the difference in the two calibers will probable never be resolved. Each shooter has their own preference as to what is better. The bullet for the .308 and the 30-06 are the same bullet!!!!
Both are .308. Do you want the extra recoil of the 30-06,more powder) or less recoil of the .308,less powder)?
The ability to accurately hit a target is 20% gun and 80% shooter behind the trigger.
Your confidence in the firearm you are using is what is important. Buy what you are comfortable with, when you pick up the gun you will know by the balance, how it feels when you work the action, how it sights in when that stock hits your cheek and just by how it makes you feel when it's in your hands. All these are factors in getting the right firearm. Remenber if your not having fun with the gun you might as well be at work making money.
Big Jim
Both are .308. Do you want the extra recoil of the 30-06,more powder) or less recoil of the .308,less powder)?
The ability to accurately hit a target is 20% gun and 80% shooter behind the trigger.
Your confidence in the firearm you are using is what is important. Buy what you are comfortable with, when you pick up the gun you will know by the balance, how it feels when you work the action, how it sights in when that stock hits your cheek and just by how it makes you feel when it's in your hands. All these are factors in getting the right firearm. Remenber if your not having fun with the gun you might as well be at work making money.
Big Jim
CatShooter
BigJim said:
That's an interesting breakdown,in percents) of how shooting well works???
.
I don't know if the 308 ever won a Wimbleton Cup, a real test of accuracy, however the 06 won quite a few, not a bunch of different people shooting military rifles with mass produced loads and some probably recoil- shy. Lones Wigger also won the 300m International Freestyle Match with it and a lot of people ask him why he didn.t use the 308. He said why not?
The 308 is not a short fat case with a sharp shoulder and a small primer pocket like the 6BR,if that is suppose to matter). Using that definition for accuracy I guess the 300 Savage,Even with a short neck) would be more accurate. Trying to keep the 308 supersonic at 1000 yds is a little tough but not the 06. The old factory ballistics of the 06 are out-dated especially with new powders available today. The 308 is a great cartridge but Long Live the King.
Dan
The 308 is not a short fat case with a sharp shoulder and a small primer pocket like the 6BR,if that is suppose to matter). Using that definition for accuracy I guess the 300 Savage,Even with a short neck) would be more accurate. Trying to keep the 308 supersonic at 1000 yds is a little tough but not the 06. The old factory ballistics of the 06 are out-dated especially with new powders available today. The 308 is a great cartridge but Long Live the King.
Dan
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.