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30-06 and 200.20x

Finally getting around to this project.

Tikka 30-06. 17 inch 1:9 twist bartlien barrel. Wildcat stock.

Lapua brass. COAL to lands is 3.451. I loaded all rounds to 3.431 for .02 jump

CCI BR2 primers

Goal is > 2800 fps.

Here are today's load tests

RL17: gave the highest velocity and was the least amount of powder.
55.5 gr: 2665
56.0 gr: 2696
56.5 gr: 2730

R22: Middle of the pack for velocity but the last two charges were slightly compressed
61.0 gr: 2646
61.5 gr: 2662
62.0 gr: 2683

N560: I had hope this would be the fastest powder but it was the slowest for velocity
61.0 gr: 2574
62.0 gr: 2594
62.5 gr: 2631

So, I'll load up more RL17 and see when I hit pressure signs. Plenty of room left in the case. Beware the man at the range with a rubber mallet!
 
Be careful when looking for pressure with RL-17. This powder will get VERY peaky close to maximum. A tenth of a grain can be the difference between okay and having to hammer open the bolt.

Edited to add: You may be close to the practical velocity limit with a 17" barrel and a 200 gr. bullet.
 
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Be careful when looking for pressure with RL-17. This powder will get VERY peaky close to maximum. A tenth of a grain can be the difference between okay and having to hammer open then bolt.

Edited to add: You may be close to the practical velocity limit with a 17" barrel and a 200 gr. bullet.
Thanks for the note on RL17 behavior. I will load in maybe 3/10 increments to creep up. I'm really hoping for 2800
 
A few years ago, I acquired a refurbished Springfield 1903-A4 (i.e. an 03-A3 turned into an -A4, also known as an A-forgery, LOL) for the purpose of shooting in our local Vintage Sniper Rifle matches. Because I had a lot of 200.20Xs at the time as I also used them in F-TR rifles, I started out doing load development with them. I ended up with a decent load at ~54.3 gr H4831sc that yielded ~2540 fps from a 24" barrel. I ultimately went with a different [lighter] bullet in order to keep the pressure in the 80+ year old action at or below 50K psi, as well as the poor availability of the 200.20Xs.

What I can tell you from the experience is that it will likely be a struggle for you to generate 2800+ fps velocity from a 17" barrel. Even if you manage to do it, you will probably end up with a load that kills the brass in a few firings and may transition to unsafe pressure very abruptly as temperatures increase. The AI version Shawn mentioned is probably the better approach. In addition, with such a short barrel, you may want to look at powders anywhere from a little bit to markedly faster than you might ordinarily choose for a cartridge of that size. Otherwise, you may end up simply burning up a lot of powder past the muzzle.

The other thing to consider is that the 200.20X bullet is currently pretty much unobtanium. Even when they come back in stock (Berger is supposedly doing runs of them for release to vendors in the July/August timeframe), don't expect them to remain available for more than an hour or two as almost every F-TR shooter in the country is also looking for them. If you currently have a large supply, that's great. But you might want to start looking for more now if you want to shoot this combination over the long haul.
 
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A few years ago, I acquired a refurbished Springfield 1903-A4 (i.e. an 03-A3 turned into an -A4, also known as an A-forgery, LOL) for the purpose of shooting in our local Vintage Sniper Rifle matches. Because I had a lot of 200.20Xs at the time as I also used them in F-TR rifles, I started out doing load development with them. I ended up with a decent load at ~54.3 gr H4831sc that yielded ~2540 fps from a 24" barrel. I ultimately went with a different [lighter] bullet in order to keep the pressure in the 80+ year old action at or below 50K psi, as well as the poor availability of the 200.20Xs.

What I can tell you from the experience is that it will likely be a struggle for you to generate 2800+ fps velocity from a 17" barrel. Even if you manage to do it, you will probably end up with a load that kills the brass in a few firings and may transition to unsafe pressure very abruptly as temperatures increase. The AI version Shawn mentioned is probably the better approach. In addition, with such a short barrel, you may want to look at powders anywhere from a little bit to markedly faster than you might ordinarily choose for a cartridge of that size. Otherwise, you may end up simply burning up a lot of powder past the muzzle.

The other thing to consider is that the 200.20X bullet is currently pretty much unobtanium. Even when they come back in stock (Berger is supposedly doing runs of them for release to vendors in the July/August timeframe), don't expect them to remain available for more than an hour or two as almost every F-TR shooter in the country is also looking for them. If you currently have a large supply, that's great. But you might want to start looking for more now if you want to shoot this combination over the long haul.
Thanks! What powders would be faster than RL17?

So far, the RL17 seemed great. Zero indication of pressure and I'm over 2700 fps.

I have 650 200.20x. I'm not a big volume shooter. Just a hunter who wants to push the old 06 a bit and stay proficient enough for my desired outcome which is a full freezer.
 
RL-17 is known for being able to produce almost unbelievable velocities, but it is also known for transitioning to unsafe pressures as the temperature increases, sometimes very abruptly. With what you're trying to do, just be careful with it is all I can tell you. One thing to consider is that many F-TR shooters are pushing the 200.20X bullet out to 1000 yd with outstanding precision from the much smaller .308 Win case, typically at velocities of 2640-2650 fps or so from a 30" barrel. If you already have them up to 2700 fps, how much more do you really need?

In any event, I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction here, as you're getting into what, to me, is fairly unknown territory. However, I might consider trying powders as fast as H4350/IMR4350, VV N550, or VV N150, if I already had some lying around. This is a circumstance where the use of a reloading program such as QuickLoad or Gordon's Reloading Tool might be of significant benefit for feeling out some preliminary ideas of faster powders that might be worth looking into, without necessarily having to buy them, initially. It might even be that a powder as fast as Varget might not be too fast for a barrel length of 17". However, I don't know that with any certainty, and any such test would need to be started out at a safely reduced charge weight, simply because it is unknown territory for most. Over the years, it has not been uncommon to use powders even as fast as IMR4895 with bullets in the ~150 gr range and barrel lengths of 24" to 26" in .30-06 loads. IMR4895 is still much too fast for a .30-06 case, IMO, even with lighter bullets. Nonetheless, those loads work, so it's hard for me to argue with its use.

In any event, my suggestion was simply that typical powders that one might consider with a bullet weight of 200 gr, a .30-06 case volume, and a typical barrel length for a hunting rifle of perhaps 24"-26" might end up being way too slow in a 17" barrel, such that a significant amount of powder would actually burn after the bullet exited the bore. This is also something for which reasonable predictions can be made using reloading software such as QL or GRT.
 
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RL-17 is known for being able to produce almost unbelievable velocities, but it is also known for transitioning to unsafe pressures as the temperature increases, sometimes very abruptly. With what you're trying to do, just be careful with it is all I can tell you.

I'd agree 100% with that. The other factor to bear in mind is that you will kill your barrel VERY quickly indeed even at the loads / pressures you're running now, never mind in the unlikely event of achieving 2,800 fps. Re17 was a cult powder among long-range competitors shooting 6XC Tubb, 284 Win and some others when first introduced giving heavy bullets up to 200 additional fps MVs in match length barrels, but it went out of favour rather quickly when the cost of those extra fps arrived in the form of much reduced barrel life. If you're using the rifle in the field with limited round counts, then that may of course be acceptable for you.

In addition to the sudden pressure spiking @Ned Ludd mentions, I've seen a number of UK F-Open 284 shooters get fantastic precision with Re17 or its local equivalent Reload Swiss RS60 (same thing different label), then for no apparent reason, precision goes belly up between matches even when the barrel is still in good condition. We don't suffer huge temperature changes in the British Isles, so temperature either wasn't much of a factor, or not at all. In most cases, the deterioration struck with no component change - ie same lot of powder, bullets and primer. Reworking the load with more a conventional powder restored the rifle / cartridge / bullet's precision in nearly all cases. I'm not talking over-pressure problems here, rather a sudden deterioration in group sizes and match scores.
 
Two weeks ago in CenTex temp and humidity using N560, my 30-06 with 10T 28 inch KBI, 215 Hybrids, ran around 2830, +/- , clocked by LR, and T3. I am not sure if I can run to within 200 fps with 11 inch shorter barrel.
 
Finally getting around to this project.

Tikka 30-06. 17 inch 1:9 twist bartlien barrel. Wildcat stock.

Lapua brass. COAL to lands is 3.451. I loaded all rounds to 3.431 for .02 jump

CCI BR2 primers

Goal is > 2800 fps.

Here are today's load tests

RL17: gave the highest velocity and was the least amount of powder.
55.5 gr: 2665
56.0 gr: 2696
56.5 gr: 2730

R22: Middle of the pack for velocity but the last two charges were slightly compressed
61.0 gr: 2646
61.5 gr: 2662
62.0 gr: 2683

N560: I had hope this would be the fastest powder but it was the slowest for velocity
61.0 gr: 2574
62.0 gr: 2594
62.5 gr: 2631

So, I'll load up more RL17 and see when I hit pressure signs. Plenty of room left in the case. Beware the man at the range with a rubber mallet!
Have you tried H or IMR 4350?
 
Thanks everyone. The temperature swings here in Prince William Sound are pretty minimal. Appreciate the cautious tales as well. I'll see where it goes today with small increment changes in RL17.

I do have some 4350 so I might as well load some of that up as well.

We use RL 17 I'm my wife's 30-06 with 155 gr scenars. I wouldn't be opposed to simplying life by have both rifles using the same powder.

And 2700 is perfectly fine when I look at the drop chart and velocity down range. But just like walking on the moon wasn't enough......
 
Those RL17 loads look pretty stout, you're loading 200gr up to Alliant's max load for 165gr btsp, 2gr over their max book load for 180gr btsp, and 5.5gr over the only 200gr bullet see on their website, although it's admittedly a different form factor. I have an 18.5" .30-06 that I'm running reasonably warm, and getting ~2,600 fps with 190gr ABLR. I'm still working on loads for my 18" 300 WSM, but so far, my top 200gr ELDx loads with RL16 and Staball 6.5 are pretty much right where your .30-06 loads are out of an inch less barrel.... Good luck, don't think I'd try too hard for 2,800 fps
 
Those RL17 loads look pretty stout, you're loading 200gr up to Alliant's max load for 165gr btsp, 2gr over their max book load for 180gr btsp, and 5.5gr over the only 200gr bullet see on their website, although it's admittedly a different form factor. I have an 18.5" .30-06 that I'm running reasonably warm, and getting ~2,600 fps with 190gr ABLR. I'm still working on loads for my 18" 300 WSM, but so far, my top 200gr ELDx loads with RL16 and Staball 6.5 are pretty much right where your .30-06 loads are out of an inch less barrel.... Good luck, don't think I'd try too hard for 2,800 fps
Thanks.

I don't think IMR4350 is worth trying. I don't think it will be any better than RL17. Maybe H414 but doubtful.
 
Those RL17 loads look pretty stout, you're loading 200gr up to Alliant's max load for 165gr btsp, 2gr over their max book load for 180gr btsp, and 5.5gr over the only 200gr bullet see on their website, although it's admittedly a different form factor. I have an 18.5" .30-06 that I'm running reasonably warm, and getting ~2,600 fps with 190gr ABLR. I'm still working on loads for my 18" 300 WSM, but so far, my top 200gr ELDx loads with RL16 and Staball 6.5 are pretty much right where your .30-06 loads are out of an inch less barrel.... Good luck, don't think I'd try too hard for 2,800 fps

I tend to agree. When I was running pressure tests, the most I could run the 215s with RL17 was 54, but primer leaked, and a couple dropped. Serengeti chamber.
 

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