3 shot group vs ladder tests

[quest450]

ES/SD can vary for different reasons, I do my early testing at 300 yards, I’m basically looking for few consecutive chargers that group less than 1/2” at this point I pay no attention to es/sd let the paper tell you what the barrel likes or doesn’t

 

[Bc'z]

ES/SD can vary for different reasons, I do my early testing at 300 yards, I’m basically looking for few consecutive chargers that group less than 1/2” at this point I pay no attention to es/sd let the paper tell you what the barrel likes or doesn’t

View attachment 1680275

Beautiful target, it really shows the difference in what a tenth can do to a load.
Are you going to break 65-65.1 down into hundredths and reshoot?

 

[CharlieNC]

I’d be interested to hear what experienced shooters make of this target. Each group represents a 0.2 grain difference in powder charge. The center point of impact remains relatively consistent from group 2 to group 5. The test was conducted at 328 yards (300 meter). Red dot is 1/4 MOA.
View attachment 1680256 Look around 57.8, as 4-5 are flat at the top of the the trend for for vertical POI

 

[bsekf]

I have waded through most of this thread and if I was a new shooter I would be totally confused.

Virgil King of the Houston Warehouse made some interesting remarks about reloading. His secret was case prep.

I still like the Berger method of testing CBTO before you settle on a charge. But I do use ladders... sometimes. 10 shot groups are better the 5 shot groups are better than 3 shot groups. But one thing remains constant.

After the 2nd shot the group will never get smaller.

 

[KMW 1954]

After the 2nd shot the group will never get smaller.

I always get a kick out of that statement. It's akin to, "once born you are never going to get any younger!"

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Don’t over think it! You can make it way over complicated. All you’re looking far is group size that is acceptable to you and that will repeat! nothing says you can’t tweak that load later

 

[Bronsin]

As I said in my earlier post, and others have alluded to, a ladder of 3 shot groups will get you pointed in the right direction and save a lot of time and grief shooting loads that have no chance. I shoot SRBR, 1-200yds, with a couple at 300 mixed in. I finally got on top of my powder charges by doing a ladder at 300yds. I wanted to see what loads were still sprinting across the line, not limping there. Testing at 300yds isn't some magic. If I were competing at 600yds, then I would see what the load was doing at 800. I feel that testing at ranges beyond where you normally compete will show you that some of those loads that look like they might be good enough usually fall apart if forced to go farther, and you can rule them out as not being reliable.

I've heard all the sayings of "if it doesn't shoot at 100, it won't shoot further", and that is correct, however, just because it shoots at 100 doesn't mean it's going to be accurate at distance. If that were the case, everyone would be shooting the PPC regardless of the distance.

 

[Old Navy]

ES/SD can vary for different reasons, I do my early testing at 300 yards, I’m basically looking for few consecutive chargers that group less than 1/2” at this point I pay no attention to es/sd let the paper tell you what the barrel likes or doesn’t

View attachment 1680275

Good shooting.

 

[Ccrider]

ES/SD can vary for different reasons, I do my early testing at 300 yards, I’m basically looking for few consecutive chargers that group less than 1/2” at this point I pay no attention to es/sd let the paper tell you what the barrel likes or doesn’t

View attachment 1680275

So, how did 65 and 65.1 look at longer distance?

 

[209jones]

All this mathematical stuff is way too much mental gymnastics, too lazy to do it. I just shoot a picked load over a few days in different conditions to see how it holds up, does it move around or stay pretty much put, as to POI. I do min to max on a new gun with a new pound of powder because guns aren't all made perfect, some are screwed up, and powder isn't always perfect, sometimes some stuff gets out that shouldn't (which I've encountered). Maybe not the issue it was 30-45 yrs ago as to getting info out on powders, but, it spooked me enough that I always check min and work up. Manuals have been known to have mistakes too, Ed Matunas illustrated that. I check for top end load, whether or not I use it, depends on what I'm doing with the gun, 95% of the time I'm below that point by a grain or two, sometimes more. Lots of things get learned over time if you shoot enough, when you have something that is truly consistent, or not, can be pretty tough for a new guy that doesn't have the experience to see the telltales on it. Doesn't hurt to be aware of all the rabbit holes, what they can represent, or maybe even do for you, in helping a person understand what you see on paper, and maybe why or how you could have got there, or why what you have going on, will or won't help your hit percentage. Just have to remember that wind and conditions can negate all the effort you made, in a heartbeat, or in the case of competitions, a mental mistake, can easily be the difference between winnng or losing. And lots of folks expectations and applications don't really require all the fuss and bother us who do get into it, go thru. If I expend a few extra rounds to prove it out, so be it, won't be the end of the world, and I'll trust what is going on with my gun, then all I have to worry about, is me and the conditions.