284 shehane expectations....

[lrgoodger]

Maybe I just expect too much from it. I know it won't run with my 30BR. That gun does .5" - .6" five shot groups at 200 yards (with a best of .22" @ 200). The Shehane is doing .8" - .9" groups at 200 (with an occasional .5"). That translates to 2.4" - 2.7" at 600 yards and 4" - 4.5" at 1000 yards. Would you be happy with that?

 

[holstil]

I shot a couple 5/8" 5 shot groups while tweaking seating depth at 300 two days ago and shot a couple of football fields at 600 today. Of course when someone two benches over shoots .349, I felt like I couldn't hit the ocean from the beach with a bazooka.

I think my small group at the last 600yd match I shot was 1.7xx". Not the best for BR but I would be tickled pink if it did 2" or less at 600 every time I shot it.

It depends on what you want to do with it.

Jim

 

[lrgoodger]

To get 1.7 @ 600 yards you have to be getting .566 @ 200 yards. I thought my .8 - .9 was too much. I may have a handle on it though.

I noticed early on that expanding the Lapua brass results in slightly crushing the shoulder. I measured .005" - .006" of shortening of the case length after expanding, and if you look close with a magnifier, you can see the slight dishing in the shoulder. That is because the shoulder is not supported from underneath when you put all that downward pressure on it to expand. The same is true of neck sizing with a bushing. I think THAT is the source of crooked necks, and NOT pulling the neck back over an expander ball (which I don't do). I use a Lee collet die for neck sizing whenever possible, but have not been able to get one for the 284 yet since they stopped doing customs.

I just found out yesterday the cartridge straightness is atrocious on the first firing. I discovered it when the cases were sticking in the Wilson bullet seater. I had noticed it all along but had not analyzed it. It was because the necks were not straight and the ogive of the bullet was being forced against the die wall, making the cartridge stick in the die.

I don't see how anyone is getting just as good of groups fireforming as they are afterward. Whapping the cases with all that pressure during the first firing is straightening them out pretty good. I've been concentrating on getting my 300 cases fireformed. I'm going to work a little harder with the second firing now and see if straighter cartridges don't eliminate those flyers.

 

[ericskennard]

How much freebore does your Shehane have? I AM working with one right now that has so little freebore it hurts. I am used to about .200 freebore to use with the VLD bullets.

I too was having problems with the new brass. I will have to look at what you did.

 

[lrgoodger]

It's a .189 freebore and its not enough for the vld. It's barely enough for the 180 hybrid. I confirmed again today that my 284 Shehane shoots better with the bullets in the lands about .015". I think it's because of the short freebore and getting too close to the donut if I jump them. I noticed that the pressure ring on the bullet hits a larger neck diameter just before it seats. I can tell because neck tension is consistent until just before the bullet seats, and then it will snap down the last few thousandths because the pressure ring goes into the swell that is just in front of the donut and the neck's grip on the bullet decreases sharply when it hits that spot.

I've had some .284 shooters tell me they inside ream to get rid of that donut. That would allow shooting the VLDs in my short freebore maybe. I have not read anything about the ramifications of seating the bullet pressure ring below the neck/shoulder junction. I would think that is a no - no.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

If you seat the ring below the donut you'll get very inconsistent neck tension. If you have it throated longer it will allow you to seat bullets farther out.

 

[JHardy]

Having learned the hard way decades ago, I never just order a reamer. I send in a dummy round with the type of bullet I will be shooting seated to the depth I want.

As to runout, take your virgin 6.5x284 brass and run it through a FL sizing/neck die with NO bushing. Forster and others will make one for you to your specs at a reasonable price. Then expand the necks to .284 with a floating expander (Sinclair). How you lube the brass for the FL die and how you lube the expander mandrel, combined with how rigid your press and set up are, plays a large part in your initial run out. Then I neck turn with a PROPERLY FITTED carbide turning mandrel. This also makes a difference as you want to eliminate the "slop" from the process. There are many post-fire forming techniques of neck turning that allow you to achieve perfect necks -- which should be your goal.

I have used custom size dies from Carstensen with great success. I have a precision Warner die that is set up for my reamer and brass that is dead nuts. I run a .313 neck on the Shehane. I like .004 neck clearance and .002 neck tension. I have three neck/shoulder bushings for this custom die. As an aside, I have seen inside the neck reamed cases by Al Warner that were beautiful and perfect -- like dead nuts run out. when you combine that with precision neck turning, your necks will be things of beauty.

Just like your "shooting" package, your "precision" loading package is a function of all parts -- if one process is lacking in precision, your precision rounds will be something less than you had hoped. The details make ALL the difference, i.e., how precision you chamfer your case mouths is huge -- this is the last place the bullet sits before it goes down the barrel. Consistency in the chamfer can even effect bullet pull, which effects ES, which effects vertical at 1000 -- the name of the game in long range is to eliminate the vert. Give your case mouth chamfer the same precision and respect as you give your crown.

True "precision" ammo takes a lot of work, sorting and expense. Unlike most, I happen to enjoy every detail of the precision loading process at least as much as I do shooting. Many 1000 yard BR matches, F-Class matches and Long Range prone matches are won or lost at the loading bench.

Precision loading is a package of "tremendous trifles." Ferris Pindell

Good luck and God bless,
Jim Hardy

 

[284driver]

Not trying to hijack the thread here. I'm curious how Norma brass holds up compared to lapua.

 

[lrgoodger]

Jim,

Thank you for your comprehensive comments. They remind me of the emphasis Virgil King put on neck preparation in the Houston warehouse. I do turn my necks very carefully and measure every round for length after seating with the Wilson in-line seater (you would be surprised how many of them vary by a couple thou), but you brought out some points I may need to pay more attention to.

One thing Virgil said was that if a gun came in already shooting well, then they could usually tune it to the zeros. If not, there wasn't much they could do for it. I think that's where I am with this 284 Shehane barrel.

Have you ever been able to take a gun that was shooting in the 4s at 100 yards with various loads and get it to go to the 2s consistently by zeroing in on THE specific, tuned load?

In my experience a poor shooter that groups in the 5s and 6s across various loads cannot be tuned with the loads to do better. A barrel that shoots 3s and 4s across all loads can be tuned to shoot consistently in the 3s with occasional 2s. Those are the barrels that I figure someone like yourself could get shooting in the 1s. Maybe I'll get there. I'm trying.

BTW, I took second place in custom class on May 4th at the Midwest VHA competition with my 30BR (same gun I use with the 284 barrel). Karl Feldkamp (a gunsmith) beat me by one point out of a possible 200. I lead the aggs for factory and custom all the way to the last two shots of the factory matches at 400 yards. A lesson learned the hard way at the worst possible time (in a match) threw the last two shots (tight together) four inches left and an inch high out of the scoring area after I put the first three right where they belonged. That threw me out of the factory class lead and resulted in sixth place in the aggs. What happened? I learned it is better to move your rear bag to bring the front rest joystick back to center than to have the gun bounce off the side of the front rest due to barrel torque when the joystick is only a sixteenth of an inch from left full travel.