.270 Poor Accuracy Help Needed

[2506]

I have just one simple question. Can you kill what you are aiming at with the first shot from a cold barrel in your hunting situation? If you can then you don't need to do anything to that rifle. If you can't place your first shot from a cold bore in the vitals from your field position then it does not matter if the rifle will shot bug hole groups. The biggest mistake I see people make all the time is they practice from a bench and brag about those little groups they shoot, but put them in a field shooting position and they can't hit the broad side of a barn. The other big mistake I see people make is they do the group shooting from a fouled barrel and then clean the bore squeaky clean and go hunting. That first shot from a clean barrel is usually no where close to were the rifle was zeroed on a fouled barrel. Just some food for thought.
60 grs H-4831 with a Sierra 130 gr bullet in a Rem case with a CCI bench rest primer about 20 thousands off the lands has shot very well in about every 270 Win I have fooled with. It kills WT deer like lightening so should work on speed goats. I would move up to a 150 gr Nosler partition for elk.

 

[ed k]

Very good advice here. Cold bore shot one of the best. When i test group my hunting rifles i shoot 3 shot groups. Chances of 5 shots at an animal are very unlikely. Also i shoot them as fast as reasonable possible. This is how it works in the feild and barrel heat does not have soak in time. Be consistant with every shot. ED K

 

[dakor]

I would check the action screws and make sure they are torqued at 50 inch pounds. The second thing I would do is check the scope and bases like others suggested and make sure they are tight. I would than clean the bore with brass brush and a quality copper remover like Montana or Shooters choice copper remover. A new stock would be a + and bed that even if it has a bedding block. I would also take a Tip and insert it in the end of your muzzle and with a magnify glass see if there are any dings in the crown. As for a bullet you might want to give a 130gr flat base bullet a try with some H-4831.

There is a common misconception that a rifle has to be heavy to be accurate and that is not the case and most factory Remington 700's are capable of 3/4 MOA or less either right out of the box or with a little fine tuning.

 

[Badbob]

You mention using 90 and 130 grain bullets, have you tried others?

110g Sierra, and Remington factory 130g and 150g. Surprising the Remington Factory 130g stuff shoots well.

Badbob

 

[Badbob]

What kind of rest and bag setup are you using, and where on the forend is the front bag making contact? Are you sling swivel studs making contact with the bags? What type of hold do you use when shooting the rifle at the bench. I see a lot of fellows who have these kinds of issues. I can sit them down behind my 6PPC and they can shoot a small group, but the method and things to watch out for when shooting a tupperware stock in a caliber that recoils are a lot different. It has been pretty common to cut fellows groups in half because of these sorts of issues. How much parallax do you have at 100 yd.? What kind of load workup procedure did you use? How do you clean the barrel? Did you break it in?

Ya, did the proper barrel breakin--I think clean, 5 shots, clean 10 shots, clean. Something like that.

I have a an older Hoppes trippod type rest, with a leather back on it. And a leather back that goes near the butt. I'm careful to not rest on the swivel and return to the same spot after each shot.

I think my best load, off the top of my head, 130 Speer SPBT using H4350. Seated just off the lands.

Thanks!

 

[Badbob]

I have just one simple question. Can you kill what you are aiming at with the first shot from a cold barrel in your hunting situation? If you can then you don't need to do anything to that rifle. If you can't place your first shot from a cold bore in the vitals from your field position then it does not matter if the rifle will shot bug hole groups. The biggest mistake I see people make all the time is they practice from a bench and brag about those little groups they shoot, but put them in a field shooting position and they can't hit the broad side of a barn. The other big mistake I see people make is they do the group shooting from a fouled barrel and then clean the bore squeaky clean and go hunting. That first shot from a clean barrel is usually no where close to were the rifle was zeroed on a fouled barrel. Just some food for thought.
60 grs H-4831 with a Sierra 130 gr bullet in a Rem case with a CCI bench rest primer about 20 thousands off the lands has shot very well in about every 270 Win I have fooled with. It kills WT deer like lightening so should work on speed goats. I would move up to a 150 gr Nosler partition for elk.

I consider myself a good shooter. I own an Anschutz and shoot competition 3 position. The reason I go to the range with my hunting gun is to build confidence in the gun. It is best case scenario. I want to know where the gun shoots in a controlled environment so I have confidence when I'm in the field.

I don't want to brag about my groups just eliminated my excuses in the field. That being said, I want to know where this gun will shoot at 400 yards BEFORE I take a poke at a Pronghorn. Therefore once I get the gun and load settled at the range I will target practice in the field (e.g., using sticks, or a bipod, or whatever) to simulate different shooting scenarios. Again, if I miss I'll know its me and not the gun.

Right now I don't have much confidence in this gun beyond 150 yards.

Thanks Badbob

 

[Badbob]

I would check the action screws and make sure they are torqued at 50 inch pounds. The second thing I would do is check the scope and bases like others suggested and make sure they are tight. I would than clean the bore with brass brush and a quality copper remover like Montana or Shooters choice copper remover. A new stock would be a + and bed that even if it has a bedding block. I would also take a Tip and insert it in the end of your muzzle and with a magnify glass see if there are any dings in the crown. As for a bullet you might want to give a 130gr flat base bullet a try with some H-4831.

There is a common misconception that a rifle has to be heavy to be accurate and that is not the case and most factory Remington 700's are capable of 3/4 MOA or less either right out of the box or with a little fine tuning.

Thanks for the comments. I'm currently using H4831 since the H450 went away. I was messing around 110g flat bottom bullets for antelope but didn't have much luck getting tighter than 1.5"

I will go through all the bolts and double check. To be honest, I think I might just invest in a good scope along with the stock and go from there.

Thanks,

Badbob

 

[CaptainMal]

Read 25-06's comments again and again and listen to him.

I have one of those mountain rifles in 257 Roberts and just took a nice 8 pt. at 540 yards. That tiny pencil-thin barrel will shoot. Of course a decent scope; not that POS you have, perfect bedding, polished bore, perfect barrel crown, no copper fouling, the right load, a bullet that barrel likes, perfect case sizing, consistent annealing and neck tension all factor in.

Here's your gun.
Only thing is this one is in 257 Roberts. It shoots 115 Nosler BT's sub MOA and I hit gongs in practice at 600 yards and ...1st shot cold/clean. This is that 540 shot, cold/clean and maybe impact 1" right of where I expected.

My favorite cartridge is the 270 Win. My Winchester Model 70 has multiple kills over 500 yards and LOTS of them. Never, I mean NEVER disrespect that cartridge.

Ignoring all that it still sounds like your gun shoots pretty good and then ---- did you read 25-06's thoughts?

Now go do it!

 

[Badbob]

Friends

I wanted to give you an update on my .270 accuracy upgrade project.

over the summer I:

• Added a laminated Boyd's stock--pillar bedded.
  Timney Trigger at around 2.5 lbs
  Leupold base and rings
  Vortex Crossfire II 6-18x 44mm scope

I've been doing load development using 130g Speer SPBT with 4831SC

Again, even after these improvements the gun is no better than it was with a factory stock, trigger, and my el cheapo Tasco scope. In fact the Vortex fogged up hunting for elk last week in Colorado.

Three shots, 100 yards 1 1/8" groups is the best. I let the barrel cool 1 minute between each shot. The three shots came after 2 warm up shots. Shooting was at the range, cement bench, with tripod style rest, bags, no winds, clear days, etc.

Sigh . . . I don't regret the upgrades, but want to really get the gun under .75" so I have more confidence taking shots at 200+ yards for elk and pronghorn.

As I see it the my next two options are: 1) keep doing load development with different powders, bullets, etc., or 2) look into action blueprinting and a new barrel.

Any suggestions? Thanks again for all your previoius advice.

Badbob

 

[mattri]

I'd try a few more bullets for sure. Look at some 140s, they shot better than anything in mine.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Bob....you've gone this far so keep going. Have you checked your twist so you know you're using the correct weight range of bullets? Did you lap the rings to make sure they're aligned properly? Are you seating too close to the rifling? I have rifles that like jumping .010, some .030 and one loves jumping .065! Currently, none of my rifles like seating closer than a .007 jump. ***Try some flat base bullets! There are many factory rifles that don't shoot boattail bullets well. I shot with a friend on Monday that was experiencing big groups with BT bullets. I was shooting the same gun, 700 SPS V, with very unsexy flat base bullets and mine were grouping dime size at 100yds. He now believes! Don't be discouraged because a factory action/barrel with 1-1.5 inch group @ 100 yds is still way better than the crap I grewup with. Please get your hands on some H4350 or IMR4350!!!!!

 

[rpierce]

If you try more loads out and still cant get it to shoot you might just want to consider the action truing and new barrel. .5 moa with factory premium hunting ammo shouldn't be an issue as long as its done by a competent gunsmith. The last two 270's ive done for customers really liked the federal premium ammo when I was test firing them. .5 inch at 100 with 3-9 scopes on them. Both were rem 700s single point trued, brux barrels, hs stocks skim bedded, and jewell triggers. Bases bedded and rings lapped. Took one out to 400 yards and it was still sub moa with factory ammo.

 

[Badbob]

Bob....you've gone this far so keep going. Have you checked your twist so you know you're using the correct weight range of bullets? Did you lap the rings to make sure they're aligned properly? Are you seating too close to the rifling? I have rifles that like jumping .010, some .030 and one loves jumping .065! Currently, none of my rifles like seating closer than a .007 jump. ***Try some flat base bullets! There are many factory rifles that don't shoot boattail bullets well. I shot with a friend on Monday that was experiencing big groups with BT bullets. I was shooting the same gun, 700 SPS V, with very unsexy flat base bullets and mine were grouping dime size at 100yds. He now believes! Don't be discouraged because a factory action/barrel with 1-1.5 inch group @ 100 yds is still way better than the crap I grewup with. Please get your hands on some H4350 or IMR4350!!!!!

thanks for the replay. Ok, I'll check the twist and invest in some flat 130s. I tried 4350 when I first got the gun. It shot better than it does now. I remember one 3-shot group at about 7/8".

I'm seated just off the lands, about .001" I'm not sure where to add bullet seating depth into the overall process of narrowing things down. Do I go back and do a whole load redevelopment at .002" back, and then .003" back and so on?

Then at what point do I switch powder or bullets and start back at .001" of the lands and work backwards? So many variables.

The scope goes back to Vortex today. Well see if the new one is any better.

 

[mattri]

Any reason you want to stick with the 130s?

 

[Badbob]

Any reason you want to stick with the 130s?

I don't really have a solid reason to switch except trial and error.

the 130s have been a bread and butter slug for the .270.

Also, I have two boxes of them.

I guess those are my 3 reasons.

Badbob

 

[mattri]

Hopefully the 130s start working for you- best of luck and be sure to keep us posted.

 

[Multitoes]

"I'm seated just off the lands, about .001" I'm not sure where to add bullet seating depth into the overall process of narrowing things down. Do I go back and do a whole load redevelopment at .002" back, and then .003" back and so on?"

I suggest taking your best looking group and seating your bullets much deeper relative to the lands. I very seldom get good groups right at land length ("I'm seated just off the lands, about .001") or even real close to the lands. As mentioned, some of my loads also want to be .035 or even farther away.
Try .015 at closest and move away and see what the rifle tells you.

 

[Prometheus]

Friends

I have a Remington 700 .270 ADL SS Mountain Rifle. It has the twig thick SS barrel and plastic black stock. The gun has never shot better than 1.25" at 100 yards. I'm living in colorado now and need something to reach out 300-400 yards to get to the allusive speed goat. So I'm ready to invest some $$ to bring this gun up to speed.

The same gun gets used for Elk and deer.

Currently it has a factory trigger that I polished and tuned to be around 2lbs. Not much creep, and is crisp and clean.

Tasco pronghorn 4-12x scope, about 20 years old

Action is bedded and the barrel is free floating.

I've hand loaded with 90g HPs and 130 SBT and never have gotten them better than about 1.25" I know I have skills because I shoot a friends 6mmPPC around .25 at a 100 yards.

So where do I begin?

Friend says go with a laminated stock first, then scope, then barrel.

Should I just sell it and start fresh?

Give me some ideas?

Thanks

Badbob

Check the scope base. It should be glued.
1,25 is ok, perhaps you shold test some other ammo.

 

[Jazz]

I used the 60 grain H4831sc load, with 130 Nosler BT .020 off the rifling, and Fed 210 primer. Shoots half inch groups.... Wasn't sure about the 270 Winchester at first for hunting. I had never used one before until this hunting season. I shot a nice 10 point that I'm mounting. I was really impressed with its performance. The deer was looking straight at me at just over 100 yards. I shot it in the neck and watched it flip over backwards through the scope. 26" 10 twist, Lilja #4 contour barrel on a Rem 700 long action. The rifle was built this summer. Tried 58.5 grains and then the 60 grain load. Easy load development...... shot maybe 25-30 rounds total including break in ....scope adjustment and a few practice shots. 8)

 

[Ace Drummond]

Badbob, I agree that a light rifle does not usually produce MOA groups. However, I own a Browning BLR levergun in >270 and it shoots excellent groups for a levergun. My bullet is : Sierra 1835 HPBT 140 Gr. Powder : Rel 19 51.2 Gr.