264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH

[drouinhomebuilders]

Guys,
I have recently had a Weatherby Mk5 re-barrelled to 264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH, & before you all start up, yes its a barrel burner, but then so is the .257 & 7mm STW, 300 ultra mag etc, and yes we are all different, different strokes for different folks.
What Im needing help with is powder selection, The old 6.5 Weatherby Wright Hoyer
did best with H-870, sadly no longer available, I have talked to the people at Hodgon who years ago did some pressure testing for the WWH & they wouldnt help me at all, Im thinking IMR7828 would be the best to start with & maybe H50BMG?
Hows about you guys putting your thoughts down, anyone with any experience with the 6.5 WWH would be much appreciated.
And by the way, its not a 30" barrelled 100yd benchrest rifle either, its a 26" hunting rifle.

 

[CJ6]

With the chosen bbl length the powders best suited to caliber IMHO may not give the best results, with that said I'd look at H-869, H-1000, H5010, H-50 BMG,VV-N170, VV-24N41, Accurate 8700. Use the heaviest bullets possible (to keep the pressures up) and use Fed 215s. Now if you were close to Southern Minn. I have 8-10 1lb jugs of H-870 sitting on the shelf.

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Dear Rodger,
your help is much appreciated, I also thank you regading the H870, but whilst it was considered the best a few years ago, Im sure as you are aware that there are a whole lot more better slower powders around today.
IMR 4350 used to be THE powder for all weatherby's, sadly for IMR, today there is a whole bunch more better alternatives about now.
The next dilema is where & at what charge do I start at, slowly working upwards, should I be interpolating charge rate wise between something like the 264 win mag or maybe 7mm STW?
I dont have enough experience with burning rates & predictability to know where to start really, I am aware about hangfires & unreliable ignition using less than adequate charges of slow burning powders, I have reloaded for 35yrs & DO KNOW HOW TO READ PRESSURE, dont worryIm very cautious & would be even more so here, also you made no mention of 7828, why was that???.
your help is much appreciated.

 

[CJ6]

In my 7 STWs and 7mm Imperial I never had that great of success with 7828 but they liked the REALLY slow stuff (870, 5010, 170, 1000. Now granted I used heavy billets 160-185s mostly Swift A-Frames,TBBCs, Woodleigh Weld Cores not TARGET type bullets but tops for the job at hand. I'll do some digging I believe I have some published load info on the 6.5-300WH , the load data for the 6.5 STW (starting loads/worked up) should be pretty close also. I'll check and get back to you. Regards Roger T PS The reason I suggested to keep the pressures up is that these slow powders NEED the pressure to perform at their best (hangfires are do to too light a powder load/low pressure/poor ignition)

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Dear Rodger,
thanks again for your help, if you had some load data for the 6.5WWH, that would be good & yes data for the 6.5 STW would be another probably good alternative, 7828 didnt work in my 7STW either, mine seems to like H1000 & probably the best powder depending on the bullet used is Ramshot Magnum at least in my Mk5-7mm STW .
In the 7mm STW case, Layne Simpson at one time had good things to say about 7828, but I cant get it to work with anything at all, as for load density and ignition the 6.5 STW data would be about the most up to date source of relative data & I will also look there for clues.
Ive got to fireform some 300 Wby Rem brass that I have sized down & turned necks on, so once I have somewhere to start I can see what may look promising whilst I fireform the new brass.
I have had this baby back from the smith for several months but have been waiting on some redding dies & spare time to get her done.
Again much appreciated- Peter

 

[CJ6]

A quick check in Cartridge Conversions (Towsley/Price) book lists 84 grs. H-870 with a 139 sp . I'll look for more data.

 

[CJ6]

A good read . Kailua Custom guns. Googgle it

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Indeed, very interesting article & yes the .264 win mag never lived up to what is was supposed to do.
I found this article-http://www.accuratereloading.com/65mmstw.html, which was also interesting, but whilsy getting those velocities, they were light on bullet weight.
With my freebored 7mm STW & 139gr bullet, when running @redline max (safely that is), I can nearly get to 3600fps with R-22 & R/S Magnum, R22 being very finicky & spike sensitive, .2 of a grain making the difference between safe or not,
and thats in this Texas heat too. R/S Magnum is the more accurate of the two.
When I ventured into this project, I had visions of a 120gr bullet @3500fps and maybe quite a bit more??????????? as per the article below-http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=5368&caliber=6.5mm&caliberid=43&header=6.5mm Caliber Reloading Data

 

[CJ6]

Peter, I was looking for my Wildcat Cartridges Vol II book but I must have loaned it out . I know that there was 2 sections on the 6.5-300WH in there.

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Why I got into this project is because I am a hunting guide for whitetail & exotics here in Texas, I see hundreds upon hundreds of animals harvested each year, and with just about every concievable cartridge there is and from what Ive seen over the last 6-7 years and also bearing in mind that I do quite a bit of culling myself when needed & have given everything a go.
From what Ive seen over that time, the one cartridge that really, really impresses me & the one cartridge that KILLS out of all relation to its size is the .257 Wby mag.
My idea whilst really loving the .257 was to have just a bit more bullet weight but at the same speed or even a bit faster.
I did have visions of maybe being able to drive 120grs @ 3800fps, what I do know is that if I can achieve that weight & velocity, is that Thors hammer will then be a sledgehammer.

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

If you do find it, I would love to see what sort of velocities they are talking.
Im expecting big things with this 264 & I may fall flat on my face, but it will be fun doing so, I havent put a bullet down the tube yet.
There are the theories about a heavy bullet @2700fps which is what the African PH's will tell you about & then there is Roy's theory about a lighter bullet @ 3500fps,
Ive seen both and whilst they are both true depending on body weight & mass of the game species, Ive seen the 257 Wby mag bring down the heavier & greater mass animals with spectacular reliability, I hear what Roy was proclaiming.
Craig Boddington penned a very appropriate article about about game species weight and mass and as to what works well and he was on the money with his ideas, BUT to me from what Ive seen, I do know that the velocity is what gives the spectacular kills, its like the animals have been electrocuted when that bullet does its job & retains weight to transfer the energy or should I say shock to the animal.

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Thanks again for that info Roger, I have never messed with moly bullets, maybe I should??, I looked everywhere & for me load data is somewhat lacking, even for the 6.5 STW, I did find some Layne Simpson data for the 6.5 STW, but sadly not enough to use, what I do have for it & the 6.5 WWH & interpolating somewhat, Ive decided that Im going to use max loads LESS 5% for 7mm STW as my starting loads.
I have to fireform 100 cases with the new barrel, so I will ladder test in .5 grain increments whilst fireforming/breaking in new barrel & testing pressures & see what looks promising. I had a look last night to see what powders I currently have here to start with & they are US869, H50BMG, Retumbo, R/S Magnum, H1000, R25, 7828
so thats enough to get an idea what its going to like, so will let you know.

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Roger,
let me know what you want for one of those 10lb jugs of H870, I dont know if I should mess with it, being as you cant buy it any more, but many times, I seem to wish I had some.

Peter

 

[CJ6]

Peter, The H-870 I have is in 1# jugs x10. I have no way of shipping them (no Haz Mat permit)but as I mentioned if you are close to Southern Minnesota I would let a few go REASONABLE (less than store price ). I would think that H-US869 should be quite close as that is the replacement for H-870. Keep me informed on your progress with the 6.5-300WWH. My high velocity tests were an excercise just to see how high I could actually push the cartridges,not really a practical hunting load development for me. Accuracy at best(with the high vel loads) was in the 1 1/2 - 2 MOA range, not earth shaking by any means :-[...Peter, If you or someone you know is going to the IBS 1000yd Nationals in Sept. I'd be more than willing to bring some for you.

 

[wapiti25]

I would look at Retumbo with 130gr bullets. I have a hunting rifle that is is a switch barrel and I'm looking at the 6.5 rem mag first and then re-chambering to the 264 win mag. I have shot a lot of the 870 in a 7mm rem mag with heavy bullets and it worked well for me. I'm currently starting to set up this switch barrel gun for an elk hunt this fall with a 7mm rem mag using the 168 Berger hunting bullets. Heavy bullets will shoot the best at long range. I like the the flat shooting of light bullets such as 120's in small 6.5's but the wind say's shoot 130's or heavier. I have been shooting a 6.5-06 with 120's at 3200 but when the range gets beyound 400yds you need a heavier bullet. Run the wind drift and drop ballistics at range with the possible bullets and see what you can live with. You are looking for one shot kills. A hunting buddy bought a new long range hunter in 7mm rem mag using 168 bergers and it really works. A moose at 503yds the first time out, dropprd in it's tracks. The load was with H1000, shoot's less than MOA at 600yds. You could look for the old H570 powder (stick powder and cleaner than 870)as it was used in the 6.5 WWH. The old Sierra manual had data using powders of the time. I would not rule out 5010 if you can find some. I don't remember the years of the of the sierra manual but mine has a green plastic binder.

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Thanks Wapiti
& you may be right, loads over the weekend are showing max fps from Retumbo, but the hunt isnt over until all the dogs are in the crate.

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Dear Roger,
I did some working up over weekend, with Sierra 123 MK, I started out with H1000, which got me to nearly 3550fps, went all the way to 50BMG & got bogged down there and it was very dirty burning too, Ramshot Magnum maxed out before 3600fps, Retumbo got me to 3700fps & spiked and US 869 whilst not finished, may get me to 3650fps???? US869 burned clean & was less sensitive to increments.
I dont know if its worth pursuing any further with 50BMG???
Im also thinking that I need to try AA8700 & VV24N21??? maybe even VV20N29
I have detailed notes with belt expansions & all velocities & results, could you look at my progress & tell me where to go??? could I email my work for evaluation????
I really dont have enough experience to know where I should go.
much appreciated
Peter

 

[willsnipe]

Peter, I was looking for my Wildcat Cartridges Vol II book but I must have loaned it out . I know that there was 2 sections on the 6.5-300WH in there.

It looks like the only powder they tested extensively with was H-870. Highest velovity was 86.0 gr. behind a 139 gr Norma bullet. 3,527 w/a 30" barrel and 3,405 @ 26". No tests of the 120s were reported.

 

[drags]

I don't have a 6.5wwh but I have a 7/300 wby which is a good round also. The 6.5wwh is considered one of the best long range hunting rounds by the old time longrange hunters here in penna.
drags

 

[drouinhomebuilders]

Hey drags,
any of those guys got any load data? or what is working for you in the 7/300?

Peter