243 Winchester powder advice.
- Thread starter Propbndr
- Start date
A huge problem I am running into is that no one that I have checked, either local or trusted online, has anything in the 85 to 100 grain weight range. I am going to use whatever I buy for both target and whitetail hunting. So the lighter weights will not do for me. Everybody has Hornady only. Even the manufacturers websites show their bullets to be out of stock. I even tried the In-Stock Alert website. Absolutely nothing out there.
SSL
Gold $$ Contributor
Agree. I've used all of those as well as others with good results. Particularly good luck with AA2700 (AA2700, W760 and H414 said to be same powder).
Loudenboomer
Silver $$ Contributor
Our .243 general puckup gun load for coyotes, skunks and whatever is the 85 gr. Sierra SP over H414/W760.
When the ladies and youngsters need a deer rifle we switch to the 85 gr. Nosler Partition over AA4350.
Aprox. same velocity and point of impact at practical ranges. Makes a good little all around rifle.
When the ladies and youngsters need a deer rifle we switch to the 85 gr. Nosler Partition over AA4350.
Aprox. same velocity and point of impact at practical ranges. Makes a good little all around rifle.
I used RL19 for 100 grain btsp and 760/414 for 87 grain bullets. I bought a lb of 6.5 Stabil to try on the 75-87 grain bullets, but have not tested yet.
Larry Koch
Silver $$ Contributor
I’ve had great success with Winchester 760, and 100 grain sp. For hunting deer and antelope. I no it’s not the latest greatest power of the day
243 3000 plus fps.
243 3000 plus fps.
MAGNUM44270
Silver $$ Contributor
44g MRP ( or R22) with 85g partition or a 105 berger , 33g of 4064 with a 95g partition
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It's pretty much established that W760 and H414 are the same, but AA2700 is different. I say this without checking the contents, but I will do that in a bit and get a picture of all 3, to verify.
ETA: So here's pics of all 3 powders. The AA2700 is not the same as the other 2.
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Are W760 and H414 the same or just similar? I have heard it said many times that they are the same, but also have seen both listed in load tables with slightly different loads for the same cal/bullet.
Edit to add:
As an example see Lyman's 50th edition 7mm-08 139gn loads.
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WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
As a side note, about a year or so ago I heard from good sources that H414 will no longer be available. I noticed that 760 and H414 were so much alike that I just stuck with the 760 as it was easier to find around here. JME. WD
Yes, they're the same thing, and that's been the 'official' advice for many years. Slightly different max loads? That's what you get when the pressure barrel testing is done at different times over the years and often with different pressure barrels even when they've been sourced with identical specs.
After Hodgdon took over the testing and distribution / sales roles for Winchester brand powders, it quietly let it be known that H414 was being dropped and this grade will only be sold as W760. It makes sense now that Hodgdon is responsible for both both marques - why duplicate packaging, stock control, distribution and loads data workloads?
Of course, Hodgdon may incur resistance to this move at dealer / shooter level. Back in my youth (long, long time ago) the UK had a car manufacturer called BMC (the British Motor Corporation) that had amalgamated lots of Britain's old carmakers and owned their names. For years it indulged in 'badge engineering' with identical vehicles from the same production lines in the same factories badged 'Austin' or 'Morris', identical in the showroom and on the roads bar badges. It was remarkable how many new car buyers told their local BMC dealer their car had to be an Austin (or Morris) as 'Austin had always made better cars than Morris' (or vice versa). H414 has been around since the 1970s, so long-term users may be very reluctant to accept that products with different company and product names are one and the same thing.
Does it give the country of origin on the Accurate-2700 label?
If the USA, that would make the manufacturer General Dynamics' St. Marks Powder Co. facility in St. Marks, Florida, the former Olin Corporation plant, and which supplies nearly all 'ball type' canister powders sold in North America with the exception of Ramshot grades. That would make it yet another rebadged St. Marks grade. St. Marks makes Alliant's 'Power-Pro' grades and all Hodgdon 'spherical' grades as well as Winchester. I imagine it makes 'Accurate' brand ball-types too, although it seems Accurate-2520 was a Belgian made powder (ie Ramshot) at one time.
SSL
Gold $$ Contributor
Nice to see the physical comparison. I'm no expert, but was relying on an old article on Accurate powders in Handloader Magazine. There it specifically said that all three were the same. Over the years I have noticed that where all three powders are listed together, load data for H414 and W760 were nearly always identical and 2700 is/was within a few tenths. With that being said. I would treat them all as different if starting new loads just to be safe.
Thanks for the graphic.
Accurate (formerly Accurate Arms under different ownership) has had an extremely varied history having started as a buyer and reseller of surplus powders (like Hodgdon). It has changed its product sources many times over the last 30, 40 years, so older Handloader articles, although accurate at the time of publication are usually no longer so in this respect.
Some grades such as '2520' have seen three suppliers over their lives. (originally Israeli surplus; Czech new manufacture until 2003; now General Dynamics St. Marks in the US.) There are persistent stories that a Chinese source was used briefly for some products, but I've never seen this confirmed.
Now that Hodgdon owns 'Accurate', it's possible there will be further product and range restructuring depending on where Hodgdon sees the 'Accurate' brand fitting into its sourcing and marketing strategies.
This is a quote from the Hodgdon product site about Accurate 2700:
”Accurate 2700 is a medium burning, double-base, spherical rifle powder that is ideally suited for the 30-06 Springfield and other medium capacity calibers such as the 22-250 Remington, 220 Swift, and the 243 Winchester. 2700 provides excellent velocities and performance in the Winchester Super Short Magnum cartridges. Made in the USA.”
(bolding and underlining by me.)
H414 is not listed on their product sale site any more. A description can be found by searching for it though.
”Accurate 2700 is a medium burning, double-base, spherical rifle powder that is ideally suited for the 30-06 Springfield and other medium capacity calibers such as the 22-250 Remington, 220 Swift, and the 243 Winchester. 2700 provides excellent velocities and performance in the Winchester Super Short Magnum cartridges. Made in the USA.”
(bolding and underlining by me.)
H414 is not listed on their product sale site any more. A description can be found by searching for it though.
I have found that Nosler is always more expensive, per bullet, than other manufacturers. Midway has them too for $59.99 for 50 bullets. At that cost, they better be self guiding.
MikeT49
Gold $$ Contributor
LOL Kinda been that way, you pay for one box of 50 Noslers what you do for a 100 of other manufacturers bullets. They kill stuff real good. I use NPs for most of my deer hunting. However, I am starting to use more Sierra TGKs, partly because they are less spendy. If you can find some Reloder 26, try that behind a 100 gr bullet. I have a 243 (26" 8T 3R) that gets them up to 3200 fps+. Just started with the RL 26, but it's looking like I should be able to get to 3/4 MOA or less. We'll see.I have found that Nosler is always more expensive, per bullet, than other manufacturers. Midway has them too for $59.99 for 50 bullets. At that cost, they better be self guiding.
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