Hi Joel, as you may have noted, I vascillate betwixt enough and too much power downrange. I do this to garner comments regarding what works best. I have both, a .223 Remington and a .243 Winchester. Both are awesome PDog calibers. Since my .243 Winchester is sighted for 200 yard Feral Hog shooting perfection with 105 grain fare, I hesitate to change my scope settings, because I rarely mess with perfection. Forty-six point O grains of Alliant RL-22 makes my HOG specific LOAD work for me. I don't require this massive power to slap a praire rat into submission. Projecting a PRat twelve feet into the sky make it no more dead than flopping over on its back. If I wanted to down a PRat with a .243 Winchester, I'd load some 70 grain Speer T-N-T bullets with 45.5 grains of H414 powder. However, this is where my .223 Remington shines: 50 grain Speer T-N-Ts with 25.0 grains of Alliant RL-10x creams a prairie rat like RIGHT NOW (not a suggested load). True, I think 350 yards is a long range shot on a tiny furball, but I only have a 24x scope. Perhaps if I owned a 32x scope . . . Wounding a prairie dog should give any proper hunter a queazy stomach, as much as wounding a whitetail. Cliffy
.243 Winchester Performance
- Thread starter cliffy
- Start date
Stating the “.243 Winchester is not a practical Prairie Dog caliber” is not vacillating. Stating “I have both, a .223 Remington and a .243 Winchester. Both are awesome PDog calibers.” is a direct contradiction to the first statement.
“I don't require this massive power to slap a prairie rat into submission” True but you need it to hit them in the wind or at longer ranges.
“True, I think 350 yards is a long range shot on a tiny furball, but I only have a 24x scope. Perhaps if I owned a 32x scope” Most of my shots are at 14 to 20 power. Normally the mirage is too heavy much above 20 power. There have been a few rare days with little mirage were I have gone as high as 26. I have only shot in the Dakota’s and it is normally windy with heavy mirage.
I have to agree with JohnWayne on this one. Cliffy have you ever shot a prairie dog?
“I don't require this massive power to slap a prairie rat into submission” True but you need it to hit them in the wind or at longer ranges.
“True, I think 350 yards is a long range shot on a tiny furball, but I only have a 24x scope. Perhaps if I owned a 32x scope” Most of my shots are at 14 to 20 power. Normally the mirage is too heavy much above 20 power. There have been a few rare days with little mirage were I have gone as high as 26. I have only shot in the Dakota’s and it is normally windy with heavy mirage.
I have to agree with JohnWayne on this one. Cliffy have you ever shot a prairie dog?
I also run my glass in the 8-12 power range most of the time in the Dakotas. Anyone who has spent much time in a dogtown knows about wind and mirage, and their effect on seeing through a scope. If cliffy thinks a .243 is to big for praire dogs he probly wouldn't think much of me and a buddy seeing who could hit one farther away with our .338 Lapua's. I think we have another keyboard expert.
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
cliffy said:
1) You mean .223 Remmie-pee and .243 Winnie-poo ?
2) If just flopping it over is enough, a .22 rimfire does that.
3) Big difference between a 50gr/223 hit and a 70gr/243 hit.....big difference.
4) These things are filthy gophers. Anyone who's spent any time shooting them knows there are crawl offs with their guts hanging out. Get over it. They feed on each others' carcasses.
Gosh! I never expected to garner so much personal reaction, but that's the nature of the prairie dog subject. Better to shoot them than to poison them, since poisoning is a slow, torturous death. Bullets are swift and final, yet I cannot recommend .22 Long Rifle fare as proper prairie dog killers since most hunters want to shoot more than 200 yards at these little beasties. Knowing one's personal range of effective aim is golden; mine remains at 300 yards! 500 plus yard shooting is teeny prairie rats is reserved for the Gods of extreme accuracy. The rest of us need not apply. Cliffy
Achman, the proper term for .243 prowess is "Winnie Pooh" and not any other wannabe language. Although I've heard the term "Winnie Maggot" from some southern buddies, I only tend to laugh concerning their use of .416 Rigby prowess to quell mere feral hogs. A 105mm Howitzer can kill a pig, but what is left is not worth eating. A .243 Winchester by any other name is still a suitable deer-pig-cougar go-getter with correct bullets for the task-at-hand. Cliffy
I have hunted white tail in NH for 15 years, and have many under my belt. I have NEVER had one go more then ten feet with my 30-06, yet I had to track a 170lb buck for hours with a .243 hole through it's lungs. I am not sold on .243 deer performance. A 100gr Nosler BT was ineffective in my eyes. It penetrated and expanded through to the hide on the far side, yet failed to anchor. Maybe smaller deer in other parts of the country, but on NH white tails I will never use a .243. That was the most miserable day I ever had hunting, and my Dad had warned me of the .243 being ineffective. I am not saying it is not a good choice for others, but I will stick with the .30's or a screaming fast 6mm.
But as far as smaller prey goes, the .243 is awesome. I love pink mist, and it provides plenty. A .30 is gross overkill for coyotes and other NH pests, but the .243 will anchor them on the spot. And I have done a bit of woodchuck shooting in some rather large corn fields, and the .223 isn't half the fun the .243 is.
If the recoil is too much, use a padded vest. I see no problem with the little recoil that it gives. And I am not a big guy by any means, 5'9" 180lbs. I put 100-200 30-06 rounds downrange almost every range session, and then shoot clays. I can shoot .243 all day long with no extra padding and have no problem. Yes, it kicks more than a .223. But in my opinion the .223 has zero recoil. Yes the gun moves, but it doesn't kick.
And yes, launching a PD or woodchuck 10' in the air makes it more dead in my book, well at least more fun to watch. You don't eat PD's or chucks, at least I don't, so what difference does it make if the kill site looks like ground zero? I have seen chucks crawl off from taking .17HMR and .222,.223, and .22-250, and good hits at that. I have yet to see a a chuck even try to crawl after a solid .243 hit. I even bring my 06' at times, as it is semi-auto and I can level several in short order and the carnage is just awesome to watch.
I am not saying the .22's are ineffective, only that I prefer to get the job done right and get it done every time. 6mm's get it done on small stuff like a .22 never could, with the exception of maybe the .220 swift as I have never seen one in action.
I see no relevance in stating the .243 isn't an ideal varmint round. I feel it is about the best going. If you want to get by with the bare minimum, then by all means go right ahead. Just don't try to make the .243 out to be overkill. It is used by many, and loved by most that use it.
Yes a smaller round will do, but where is the fun in using the bare minimum? My car(RIP) had 500hp and ate a 10lb bottle of NOS for breakfast, did I need it, or the ability to go from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds? NO. Was it fun as hell, you bet your ass! It may have got 6-8 MPG, but it's fun per gallon was off the chart.
I see that as the same as cost per round. If it cost a little more to have ten times the fun, than it's worth it all day long.
But as far as smaller prey goes, the .243 is awesome. I love pink mist, and it provides plenty. A .30 is gross overkill for coyotes and other NH pests, but the .243 will anchor them on the spot. And I have done a bit of woodchuck shooting in some rather large corn fields, and the .223 isn't half the fun the .243 is.
If the recoil is too much, use a padded vest. I see no problem with the little recoil that it gives. And I am not a big guy by any means, 5'9" 180lbs. I put 100-200 30-06 rounds downrange almost every range session, and then shoot clays. I can shoot .243 all day long with no extra padding and have no problem. Yes, it kicks more than a .223. But in my opinion the .223 has zero recoil. Yes the gun moves, but it doesn't kick.
And yes, launching a PD or woodchuck 10' in the air makes it more dead in my book, well at least more fun to watch. You don't eat PD's or chucks, at least I don't, so what difference does it make if the kill site looks like ground zero? I have seen chucks crawl off from taking .17HMR and .222,.223, and .22-250, and good hits at that. I have yet to see a a chuck even try to crawl after a solid .243 hit. I even bring my 06' at times, as it is semi-auto and I can level several in short order and the carnage is just awesome to watch.
I am not saying the .22's are ineffective, only that I prefer to get the job done right and get it done every time. 6mm's get it done on small stuff like a .22 never could, with the exception of maybe the .220 swift as I have never seen one in action.
I see no relevance in stating the .243 isn't an ideal varmint round. I feel it is about the best going. If you want to get by with the bare minimum, then by all means go right ahead. Just don't try to make the .243 out to be overkill. It is used by many, and loved by most that use it.
Yes a smaller round will do, but where is the fun in using the bare minimum? My car(RIP) had 500hp and ate a 10lb bottle of NOS for breakfast, did I need it, or the ability to go from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds? NO. Was it fun as hell, you bet your ass! It may have got 6-8 MPG, but it's fun per gallon was off the chart.
I see that as the same as cost per round. If it cost a little more to have ten times the fun, than it's worth it all day long.
cliffy said:
Let me ask you... have you tried to kill one with the .243?
Been following this thread from the start and I guess it's time for me to weigh in.
I started shooting the .243 shortly after it came out. My first one was a custom Mauser with a heavy Douglas barrel, Timney trigger and an old Weaver K-8 scope. I shot Ground Squirrels with it and had a blast. A later .243 Sako took a few Mule deer and my .243 Ruger No. 1 took some White tails. My Remington 700V took a bunch of Prairie Rats and my current Custom Remington 700 .243AI is destined to make some 1000 yard kills on prairie rats. .223's are fun and so are 22-250's but taking a pdog at 1000 yards has to be the ultimate thrill.
A 6.5 -20X scope is plenty for those shots in fact, my buddy uses a 4-14X on his .243. Seeing the mirage helps you judge wind so don't turn those scopes down too far.
This years battery will include a .223, 6BR 14T, 6BR 8T and the .243 Ackley Improved.
I started shooting the .243 shortly after it came out. My first one was a custom Mauser with a heavy Douglas barrel, Timney trigger and an old Weaver K-8 scope. I shot Ground Squirrels with it and had a blast. A later .243 Sako took a few Mule deer and my .243 Ruger No. 1 took some White tails. My Remington 700V took a bunch of Prairie Rats and my current Custom Remington 700 .243AI is destined to make some 1000 yard kills on prairie rats. .223's are fun and so are 22-250's but taking a pdog at 1000 yards has to be the ultimate thrill.
A 6.5 -20X scope is plenty for those shots in fact, my buddy uses a 4-14X on his .243. Seeing the mirage helps you judge wind so don't turn those scopes down too far.
This years battery will include a .223, 6BR 14T, 6BR 8T and the .243 Ackley Improved.
long40shot
Gold $$ Contributor
Well,
I do not consider myself one of the "Gods of accuracy" by any means. Last year on my buddies and my annual p-dog trip I scored several kills past 500 yards. Rem 700 VLS, 243 Winchester, 105grn A-Max. Hmmmmm...........
I do not consider myself one of the "Gods of accuracy" by any means. Last year on my buddies and my annual p-dog trip I scored several kills past 500 yards. Rem 700 VLS, 243 Winchester, 105grn A-Max. Hmmmmm...........
cliffy said:
Ballistic coefficient deemed the .243 a prime prairie dog caliber. I am unsure if you have ever done much shooting in large flat open spaces, but when winds kicks up there are no trees or hills to slow it down. It has been proven that a 6mm bullet with a high BC will buck wind far better than a .223. The added power, range, and reduced wind drift are essential in making shots over 400 yards in the wind. It can be done, but the .243 makes it easier. If it is a nice calm day, a .22 will do well. But when the winds blow and you want to make long shots, a .243 is the obvious choice.
A 7mmWSM would be overkill, but a .243 only burns 6-10 grains more than a 22-250. And it burns about the same amount as the .220 swift, and the swift is seen by many as the ultimate .22 varmint round.
Overkill is an overstatement. It uses a bullet with a larger diameter and higher BC, and only burns slightly more powder than 2 of the better .22 varmint rounds.
I don't see a point in trying to prove the .243 is too much for varmints. Every major bullet manufacturer makes 6mm varmint bullets. I don't feel they would do this if the demand wasn't there. It's pretty obvious that many people use it. And they are just in doing so.
If you want to point out the benefits of a cartridge, point them all out. Don't try to make one of it's high points out to be a downfall. The .243 is a top notch varmint round, and more so at longer distance. It will do anything a .22 round will do, and do it better.
.243 is one of the most versatile 6mm's out there. It will take everything from varmint to medium game. As long as you load it with the right bullet and use it within it's limits.
I have and shoot regularly a .223, .243 and a .243 AI. The last couple weekends I and a some friends have been heading to a range that has a bunch of bowling pins for targets. They are set up at 400 and 500 meters. Plus there is a board at 300 meters that is set up for holding clay pigeons.
At 500 meters I dont have a problem knocking over pins with authority with the .243 AI launching 75 gr. V-Max's if I judge the wind right. My .223 doesnt even stand a chance of getting a hit at that range. At 400 My AI and my friends .243 Win shooting 70gr. BT's knock the hell out of the pins, Our .223's have a little trouble when it gets a little windy. And they dont have the umph to really knock the pins off the rail very hard. The 6 mm buck the wind better and hit a lot harder. At 300 the .243's have no problems hitting the clays. You have to watch the wind with the .223's
Ive killed a few deer with my .243 Win and one with my AI. I have yet to have one go very far after the shot. I like the fact that I can take either the .243 Win or the AI out on a deer hunt and grab some varmint loads and I only need one rifle for a combo hunt.
We shoot a lot of nutria around here. The guy I usually go with shoots a .22-250, I either use my .223 or my AI both .22's kill them. The .AI just does it with more visual appeal.
At 500 meters I dont have a problem knocking over pins with authority with the .243 AI launching 75 gr. V-Max's if I judge the wind right. My .223 doesnt even stand a chance of getting a hit at that range. At 400 My AI and my friends .243 Win shooting 70gr. BT's knock the hell out of the pins, Our .223's have a little trouble when it gets a little windy. And they dont have the umph to really knock the pins off the rail very hard. The 6 mm buck the wind better and hit a lot harder. At 300 the .243's have no problems hitting the clays. You have to watch the wind with the .223's
Ive killed a few deer with my .243 Win and one with my AI. I have yet to have one go very far after the shot. I like the fact that I can take either the .243 Win or the AI out on a deer hunt and grab some varmint loads and I only need one rifle for a combo hunt.
We shoot a lot of nutria around here. The guy I usually go with shoots a .22-250, I either use my .223 or my AI both .22's kill them. The .AI just does it with more visual appeal.
Kenny,
I have had a 243 since 1979 and have used it to kill several whitetails, turkey and hogs. I been lucky that I was able to place my shots well enough that none ever moved after I shot them even when using light weight (70gr) bullets. My hunting companions have had 300 win mags, 270s, and all sorts of bigger guns/bullets and yet they have had deer run off on them. Why? Bad shots occasionally and spooking the deer before the shot hits them. It gets the adrenaline running and the deer have enough oxygen in the blood to run a few seconds.
I have had a 243 since 1979 and have used it to kill several whitetails, turkey and hogs. I been lucky that I was able to place my shots well enough that none ever moved after I shot them even when using light weight (70gr) bullets. My hunting companions have had 300 win mags, 270s, and all sorts of bigger guns/bullets and yet they have had deer run off on them. Why? Bad shots occasionally and spooking the deer before the shot hits them. It gets the adrenaline running and the deer have enough oxygen in the blood to run a few seconds.
CPorter said:
Like I said, it may work for you, it just didn't perform for me. I hit the deer very well with a solid lung shot, and all it did was make it bolt and keep on trucking for a good while. The deer had no idea I was there until he was hit. Maybe it was a fluke, but it was enough to turn me off from .243 on deer. I bought the gun specifically to hunt deer, as I was convinced it was effective, as many others have had great success with it.
I have just fared better with a 30-06. Not saying a .243 won't get the job done, as it will and has been proven to do so by many hunters. I just didn't have luck with it that day, and have yet to try it again. I figured my 30-06 isn't broke, so I need not fix it. Just going with what I have proved to work well for me. I also use a .50cal blackpowder and a 12ga rifled slug gun, and have never had a deer run off after a solid hit with either of those. I simply had a bad experience and have yet to give it another shot, and maybe I am missing out by doing so. But my methods have served me very well, so I am reluctant to change at this point. Maybe I will try again someday.
My post wasn't intended to state the .243 ineffective, as it isn't. I was merely stating it isn't the right choice for me. I am not the best hunter or the best shot, but I do well, and have had good luck with what I use. I just like having the extra horsepower available.
Sorry if I mislead anyone to believe I was stating the .243 as unsuitable, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all.
Kenny
Wow, this thread has sparked some debate for sure! Guns are just tools to me. There is a "right tool" for every job and some guys are better at using different tools than other guys. Boils down to personal preference.
Having said that, I'm partial to the .243 myself and have owned a few in different makes and models. I have also shot varmints with a 300 Weatherby and a .338 Win Mag. Dead is dead and I've never heard a coyote complain when it got shot with a .223 or a 458.
Lighten up a bit fellas and let's have some fun.
This thread reminds me of the Ford vs. Chevy debates when I was a kid.
Not tryin to flame anybody, just smoothing things out a bit. :-\
Having said that, I'm partial to the .243 myself and have owned a few in different makes and models. I have also shot varmints with a 300 Weatherby and a .338 Win Mag. Dead is dead and I've never heard a coyote complain when it got shot with a .223 or a 458.
Lighten up a bit fellas and let's have some fun.
This thread reminds me of the Ford vs. Chevy debates when I was a kid.
Not tryin to flame anybody, just smoothing things out a bit. :-\
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