243 neck tension issue

[SecondsCount]

I have to admit that 243 Winchester isn't my favorite caliber but I keep one around for fun.
Recently I traded off my 700 ADL for a BDL with the heavy varmint barrel and an unknown round count.

The RCBS FL die that I have seems to be putting too much neck tension on the brass, both R-P and FC headstamp. The first groups I shot using 87 Vmax were just under and inch. When I tried the 105 Amax bullets that I had from years ago, the seater was leaving a light ring near the tip of the bullet, and groups hovered around 1.2"

This time I decided to try my 6x47L whidden bushing die with a 269 bushing to neck size only. Five shot groups shrank tremendously, one was 0.52 and another was 0.44 inches at 100 yards.

I don't want to spend money on a new die for something I shoot maybe 50 rounds a year. Is there a way I could polish or hone 1 or 2 thousands from the RCBS die?

 

[GLShooter]

Google for a custom button might help. My fix would be an expander mandrel from Sinclair.

Greg

 

[SecondsCount]

An expander mandrel might be a good idea...

 

[acloco]

"When I tried the 105 Amax bullets that I had from years ago, the seater was leaving a light ring near the tip of the bullet, and groups hovered around 1.2" "

Seating stem is not built for the VLD style of bullets.

Most of the die manufacturers will send you a new seating stem.

Or....enlarge the center hole in the stem and drill slightly deeper.

Allows the seating stem to contact further down the jacket (to a thicker area) and the tip will not be contacting the seating stem.

 

[deadidarren]

One thing you can try because you don't want to spend any money lower seating stem by about 0.010 as with that ring around the nose of the bullet jacket it is not seating the projectile as deep as your other dies the accuracy issue could just be that or it may not

 

[SecondsCount]

"When I tried the 105 Amax bullets that I had from years ago, the seater was leaving a light ring near the tip of the bullet, and groups hovered around 1.2" "

Seating stem is not built for the VLD style of bullets.

Most of the die manufacturers will send you a new seating stem.

Or....enlarge the center hole in the stem and drill slightly deeper.

Allows the seating stem to contact further down the jacket (to a thicker area) and the tip will not be contacting the seating stem.

That could be part of the issue but I can feel that the seating pressure is high. It feels like more pressure than seating bullets in a 30-06

When I used the bushing die, the seating issues went away.

 

[CenterDot]

To start with, Hornady says that the 105 A-Max should be used in a rifle w/ 1:9 twist or faster to get good stabilization. Most .243's are 1:10. I've looked at that bullet but stayed away for that reason (for my .243 w/ 1:10). but, none of this should have any relation to neck tension. You could measure the shank on the A-Max and compare that to other bullets or to SAAMI specs.

My personal experience with a pile of .243 bullets over the years is that no jacketed bullets ever gave me issues with neck tension. I have used about ever maker of brass out there, and one thing I've found is that some have wildly varying neck thicknesses. For varmint hunting, I settled on Hornady brass and was able to avoid neck trimming which made me very happy.

I've used Lyman, RCBS, and Hornady w/ my .243 over the years w/o issue. I found I liked the Hornady for the seating die, but that's just me. My bullet run-out dropped dramatically. I'm sure Redding or the like would also be very good.

I wouldn't fault any of the dies. They were all good, just some a bit better than others when the nit picking started. Be sure you look at your neck ID and the bullet OD. I try for .002 interference fit but .003 is fine.

I think that if you want to use most ELD bullets in the over-100 range, you will probably want to look at the 6mm Creedmoore. I'm coming up on a re-barrel and that's where I'm going.

 

[LCazador]

Doesn't your RCBS die have an expander? You could have RCBS send you an new expander. Something is not right. Your best bet would be to buy a full length bushing die and be done with the whole issue. Spending a little can make life much easier and eliminate headaches. Piece of mind has to be worth that $65-70 for the die. I just went through the same process by with a 243 Sako that was inherited.

 

[Frankm]

Might take a look at whether your necks are work hardened. Annealing could help. Also a very slight amount of a wax type case bullet. Not a bunch that ends up in powder; a dab on the inside of neck. Apply with a q-tip or similar.

 

[SecondsCount]

Might take a look at whether your necks are work hardened. Annealing could help. Also a very slight amount of a wax type case bullet. Not a bunch that ends up in powder; a dab on the inside of neck. Apply with a q-tip or similar.

Good point but I forgot to mention that I am annealing after every firing, using templaq on the inside of the neck to insure the correct temp, and an Annie Inductive annealer set for 1.3 seconds.

This last reload, using the bushing die, I put a small amount of imperial sizing lube on a q-tip and wiped the inside of the neck before sizing.

 

[divingin]

Did you remove the expander from the RCBS sizing die by chance? That will get you a *really* tight neck. Most commercial FL dies need the expander, as that's how they set the final neck inside diameter.

Using Tempilaq on every case? Do you clean it out before seating? Or just a test case or two?

This last reload, using the bushing die, I put a small amount of imperial sizing lube on a q-tip and wiped the inside of the neck before sizing.

Does your bushing die have an expander? Most don't. Why would you lube the inside of the mouth if the die doesn't touch the inside?
Or are you saying you lubed the inside of the die (which would work, I guess, but it's easier to lube the case neck exterior, IMO.)

 

[SecondsCount]

Everyone has offer some good suggestions and I appreciate it. I am moving forward with purchasing a Wilson .242 mandrel die as I can use in my other 6mm loads.

The first couple of times I loaded, I lubed the outside of the case with Imperial wax and full length sized with the RCBS die that has an expander ball.

This last time, where I saw a big improvement in group size, the outside of the neck was lubed and I put a very thin amount of Imperial wax on the inside of the neck. I then ran it up into the 6x47L Whidden bushing die, enough to just neck size. The Whidden die has the expander, or maybe they call it a mandrel.

I annealed before sizing in all of the above scenarios.

 

[Homerange]

I think that if you want to use most ELD bullets in the over-100 range, you will probably want to look at the 6mm Creedmoore. I'm coming up on a re-barrel and that's where I'm going.

Better still, the 6mm Rem that can whip anything the 6mm Needmore can do.
Buddy built a custom on a Tikka Varmint platform pushing 105 Bergers 200fps faster than anything you will see in print for 1 1/4" groups at 500 and watched him take a rabbit at 820 yds.