I traded for a 243 Ackley barrel from Shilen. I got dies for the barrel that came from Shilen. The dies are labeled 243 Winchester improved. The die felt tight when I sized fire formed 243 brass. I read in the 243 section of this site there is a .005 difference between the 243 Ackley and the 243 Win Improved. I ordered what a vendor advertised as a Redding 243 Ackley body die and was sent a die that is labeled 243 Win Improved. It was too late to call Redding and the vendor didn't have an adequate answer. Do I need to order a custom 243 Ackley die? If someone has input I would appreciate it. I try and only neck size unless I need to bump or body size. With the loads I make the fired brass re chambers easily but this won't always be the case. thanks
243 Ackley Body Die
- Thread starter Curmudgeon
- Start date
The .243 Win. Improved body die, is a 243 Ackley, they are one in the same. The body die should bump the shoulder and just the body enough so that it feeds nicely into the chamber without sizing any of the neck. The neck will have to be sized with a Neck Bushing die. Hope this answers your question.
CatShooter
I will second what ChuckHunter said - 0.005" is less than the variance between two reamers for the same caliber... it means nothing.
Both the AI and the Winchester Improved are the same cartridge.
Both the AI and the Winchester Improved are the same cartridge.
Thank you both for the reply. The feeling when sizing seems greater than other body sizers I use. I will continue with the Redding die. It is my first 6mm and is a lot of fun. So far I have used Remington and Prvi brass so it might be time to buy Lapua 243 brass and see if there is a difference. Thanks again.
CatShooter
Curmudgeon said:
Prvi brass - badd!
Remington brass - OK
Lapua brass - Good!!
CatShooter
white121 said:
There is no 243 Winchester Improved with a 30° shoulder.
Go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.243_Winchester
... and look on the right side under "Variants"... and you will see where the myth of two cartridges come from.
Many people call Ackley cartridges, just "Improved". It is "common use" terminology.
CatShooter
Nomad47 said:
They make their stuff out of reclaimed scrap. No two batches are the same - their cores are made out of reclaimed wheel weights. I shot some of their hollow points into ballistic gel (Perma-Gel) and the jackets pealed off, but the core looked like it was just made, not even the slightest deformation - it was rock hard.
NCVarhtr
Gold $$ Contributor
Gentlemen,
According to the 6mm AR website, they show a .243 Improved with a 30 degree shoulder. One of the characteristics of wildcats is that there is no standard SAAMI specifications. So, your chamber may have been cut with a reamer that had very little or less taper at the junction of the body and shoulder than what the die maker considered "standard" . For example, I have a .223 AI. I know that there are at least 3 different dimensions for the diameter at the junction of the shoulder and body for that cartridge. Measure a fired case at the shoulder/body section. Then measure a sized case and see how much difference you get. Also, look at the shoulder angle and try to determine if you are using the correct die for your chamber.
According to the 6mm AR website, they show a .243 Improved with a 30 degree shoulder. One of the characteristics of wildcats is that there is no standard SAAMI specifications. So, your chamber may have been cut with a reamer that had very little or less taper at the junction of the body and shoulder than what the die maker considered "standard" . For example, I have a .223 AI. I know that there are at least 3 different dimensions for the diameter at the junction of the shoulder and body for that cartridge. Measure a fired case at the shoulder/body section. Then measure a sized case and see how much difference you get. Also, look at the shoulder angle and try to determine if you are using the correct die for your chamber.
CatShooter
Nomad47 said:
Of course I switched gears
... The point being, Serbia is a very poor country, and their industries are in serious trouble.They make their stuff out of scrap metals. Rem, Win, Lapua, and the others use clean metals to make brass.
If you want blasting brass, then Privi is "OK", but if you want quality, reloadable cases, look elsewhere.
Around here, the range "Brass rats" leave Privi on the ground.
CatShooter
NCVarhtr said:
Where on that page do they show a 30° version?
This is what the write claimes...
"One thing that you need to watch for is what version of the .243 Improved that you have. This depends, for the most part, on whose reamer you will be using for the chambering of your barrel. It is easy to determine if your .243 Improved is the .243 Ackley Improved, or the .243 Winchester Improved. If you have the .243 Ackley Improved, the shoulder-body section will measure .460" dia. at this point. If you have the .243 Winchester Improved, the shoulder-body section will measure .455" diameter at this point. Both cartridges have the 40-degree shoulder. I have used both versions and found that you can use any data developed for either version interchangeably."
Unfortunately, the writer is not very familiar with the 243 cartridge - the article is made up of cherry picked bits from other articles (he gives a list a the bottom of his article).
Anyone with even basic knowledge of reamer making or SAAMI specifications would laugh at the idea that 0.005" in body/shoulder defines a separate version. If you picked up ten 243 rifles at your local dealer, there would be more than 5 thou variation in the body/shoulder junction diameter.
8 thou is standard variance in chamber dia at the body/shoulder junction.
NCVarhtr
Gold $$ Contributor
Go to the 6mmAR website. (Not 6mm BR) On their home page, they show several cartridges across the top. Third line down, they show the 243 Imp. and if you click on it, they show pictures and have some discussion about the cartridge...Redding makes the dies for it and they show a box marked Redding with the label showing .243 IMP 30 degree....Hope that helps a little.....George
CatShooter
NCVarhtr said:
Well, yes and no - that is a custom item made by one smith - the dies are NOT a Redding catalogue item - they are made for that one fellow to order.
There are a lot of gunsmiths that have developed what they consider a great cartridge that will shake the shooting world, and there are hundreds of wildcats that are available from the designer only. That does not make it a valid wildcat in the mainstream of shooting, and that is not the cartridge that is being discussed in this thread.
CatShooter
white121 said:
It would be marked on the die body - which, apparently, it is not.
mikegaiz
Stay frosty, my friend.
The article above has a picture that shoes a box marked clearly (243 improved 30 degree CUSTOM). I have been a Redding dealer for 10 years and have seen no standard made 30 degree shoulders listed in their catalogs. All Redding Catalog standard dies show 40 Degree. I think Midway has a typo on their web site or they had CUSTOM dies made for them. That is my 2 cents.
mikegaiz said:
If you been a Redding dealer for 10yrs guess you don't know about Redding chart for custom dies in their catalog.
http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38:custom-made-dies
http://www.redding-reloading.com/images/stories/PDFfiles/2012_redding_catalog.pdf
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