22BR die question

[Kiba]

Looking for a sanity check that I didn't order the wrong stuff.

Putting together a 22BR for a buddy. Have lapua 6BR brass on backorder.

We have a PTG 22BR reamer, #T23215. Part number appears to be the Lapua/Norma 22BR reamer.

I purchased dies from Redding; a standard FL die for initial sizing and necking down, Type S FL bushing die for subsequent reloads, and a micrometer seating die... and just noticed they're all labeled 22 BR Remington.

Doing some reading it appears the old Remington BR chambering was a little shorter and about .003" smaller near the case head compared to the Norma/Lapua BR chamber. Some further reading seems to say Redding is making their 22BR dies to the newer Norma/Lapua chamber specs, since nobody really uses the old Remington BR specs anymore.

So are the current Redding dies I have correct for the Lapua reamer & brass, and is the "Remington" on the label just an artifact... or should I send them back and get some different dies?

Thanks for the help in clearing things up...

 

[NorCalMikie]

At this later date, I would suspect they're for the newer Lapua chambering BUT, I would call Redding and get the straight skinny.

 

[Kiba]

Tried calling about 20 times... Always a busy signal. Used the contact form on their website and hope they'll get back to me, but will try calling again tomorrow.

Don't want to trash 500 pieces of new lapua brass...

 

[gzig5]

The difference in unfired case length between the Rem and Norma case is less important than the chamber headspace set by your gunsmith as far as the dies are concerned and that is controlled by the headspace gage which all say 22BR Rem (or 6mm, 7mm, etc. same for each dia) and how much clearance he sets on the gage. Once fired you want to set the shoulder back one or two thousandths. The dies should be able to do that as is. If they don't set back far enough you trim a touch off the bottom of the die (or shorten the shell holder). If they go too far with the die bottomed out properly on the shellholder, you can get the Redding Competition shellholder set which allows you to adjust heaspace from zero up to +.010".

Now if there is a difference in the case body diameter between differnent brass or reamer profiles, that is a different topic but you mentioned headspace length on the brass.

For what is it worth I just chambered a 22BR with a PTG reamer, don't remember the number but it is a .254 neck. I got it to where it would close with no resistance on the gage but wouldn't close with a .001" shim added. Rem brass is just snug in the chamber but I don't know if that is from the factory shoulder headspace or a small false shoulder left from necking down. Either way it works fine. I haven't tried the Lapua or Norma brass I have but have little doubt I can make it fit my headspace.

Be aware that the FL die will significantly over size the brass and then bring it back to 22cal with the expander mandrel. I got some wicked runout just going through the FL die. So I am using a variety of dies and bushings to step it down in four stages. The redding Neck bushing dies won't size the full length of the neck so you can't use them very well for the initial sizing steps, though I recently found out that the FL S-die will go to the shoulder, but you want to do it in steps.

I chronicled my problem, solution, and education here.....http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/open-neck-up-fl-sizer-342807/#post3120775
Maybe someone will gain something from it.

 

[Kiba]

I'm worried about the .003"-.004" diameter difference at the .200" line that I've seen some reference to; the 22BR Remington being smaller than the BR Norma/Lapua. From what I can find the 22BR Remington is .468" at the .200" line, and the BR Norma/Lapua is 0.4714" at the .200" line.

If the Redding die is indeed made to the smaller 22BR Remington dimensions, then the FL die will oversize the brass at the .200" line which will probably result in loose primer pockets and possibly a head separation in only a few resizings from excess web growth during firing. I'd rather not trash a bunch of Lapua brass...

I'll report back once I hear from Redding with definite information and dimensions.

 

[wolfman]

I'm curious about this too. Let us know what you find out.

 

[Kiba]

Swapped some emails with an engineer at Redding.

I stated my concern about the .200" line diameter differences between the 22 BR Norma/Lapua and 22 BR Remington chambers. He asked for a copy of the reamer print to verify compatibility with their dies, which I sent (PT&G #T23215.) He responded back that their FL die would work just fine with that chamber reamer and their FL die would "minimally size" the case and not overwork the brass.

I asked for the FL die diameters at the .200" line and shoulder line so I could understand what "minimally size" translated to in hard dimensions, but because of Redding policy he was unable to share those dimensions with me.

Their blessing of “minimally sizing” the case for the chamber cut with the PT&G reamer is good enough for me and I'll use the dies, but I wish he was able to share the actual die dimensions with me... I understand why that policy is in place though.

I’m tempted to toss the FL die on the CMM and measure the shoulder diameter, body taper, and .200 line diameter directly if I can get a probe in there, or do a Cerrosafe cast of the die and toss the resulting plug on the optical measuring machine.

 

[redrockranger]

I'm worried about the .003"-.004" diameter difference at the .200" line that I've seen some reference to; the 22BR Remington being smaller than the BR Norma/Lapua. From what I can find the 22BR Remington is .468" at the .200" line, and the BR Norma/Lapua is 0.4714" at the .200" line.

If the Redding die is indeed made to the smaller 22BR Remington dimensions, then the FL die will oversize the brass at the .200" line which will probably result in loose primer pockets and possibly a head separation in only a few resizings from excess web growth during firing. I'd rather not trash a bunch of Lapua brass...

I'll report back once I hear from Redding with definite information and dimensions.

Do you have a Redding type s 6BR body die ? That is what i use most of the time on my 22 BR Lapua and Remington brass.
I would think that fire forming will work just fine . I think Redding will tell you everything is fine.

 

[RussellJ]

I had the same excessive bullet run out on my 22BR. A friend recommended when re-sizing the brass to slow my stroke of the press handle. I did and it worked!!!