22BR and 4350

[USMCDOC]

I am sold on the 22BR for pure fun. I was not trying to assess accuracy during my ladder test, but I noticed that the bullets (inexpensive 15cent Hornadys) just kept going through the same hole at 100yards, with an expected periodic vertical adjustment for increasing velocity. And this was from a bi-pod. I also like the fact that I can shoot it free-recoil.
It would make a fantastic PD caliber, but I won't use it for competitive target shooting until I can afford a more powerful scope. I lost that 300M match because I couldn't see my 6mm holes to make hold-off adjustments. You would have to borrow Mt Palomar to see .224 holes at 600yards.

a rinky dink scope is fine if you have someone pulling and marking each shot.. but with the "300 meter" format, i understand the need to see your shots on the target. Of course, the advent of being able to use "electronic" targets would solve a lot of that as well..

 

[xswanted]

I shot some IMR 4350 loads today. 75 Berger, Rem 7 1/2

32.0 Avg-3102
32.5 Avg-3164
33.0 Avg-3206
33.5 Avg-3252

SD with all these loads was between 12-15

Best group was 32.5 with it being literally one hole in 4 shots with the fifth being out by a hair from wind.

33.5 was right at .5"

33.5 will fill the case up pretty full. They need to be "tapped" a bit to settle the powder or poured very slow.

Overall I think 4350 is certainly a powder to consider, I know I will do further testing soon.

And from the above posts I WILL be trying R17

 

[RGRobinett]

ASbobcat - nice explanation - your results are very similar to mine: Stiller Diamondback, Bartlein 1:8" twist, 26", .246" NK, turned for .002" total clearance. The barrel "liked" just short of 35.0 Gr. of RL-17. As you noticed, I am pretty leery about sharing load info, where there is little published DATA from the powder manufacturer. When I want speed, and precision, RL-17 gets a look -it's very impressive in the .220 Ackley Swifts, and, via the .257 (Roberts) Ack. Imp., it's as if Alliant formulated this powder for the specific cartridge! May see ya at Mt. Palomar! RG

 

[USMCDOC]

ASbobcat - nice explanation - your results are very similar to mine: Stiller Diamondback, Bartlein 1:8" twist, 26", .246" NK, turned for .002" total clearance. The barrel "liked" just short of 35.0 Gr. of RL-17. As you noticed, I am pretty leery about sharing load info, where there is little published DATA from the powder manufacturer. When I want speed, and precision, RL-17 gets a look -it's very impressive in the .220 Ackley Swifts, and, via the .257 (Roberts) Ack. Imp., it's as if Alliant formulated this powder for the specific cartridge! May see ya at Mt. Palomar! RG

RG,
With the new thread that i have started, one of the considerations that i have considered with the idea is to follow it with RL17.

 

[USMCDOC]

You know that there is the tought.. what about RL16?

 

[ASbobcat]

You know that there is the tought.. what about RL16?

RL16 uses a different chemical treatment. There is a lot of information about it on this site and elsewhere. RL17 and RL26 are the ONLY Alliant powders that are made by Nitrochemie of Switzerland and use their proprietary grain saturation deterrent. All others are made by Bofors of Sweden and use a standard surface deterrent treatment.
This is what gives RL17 it's "magical" qualities.
There are other benefits to RL17. I was comfortable posting maximum loads with it because it is the most docile powder I've ever worked with as far as predictable behavior near maximum loads. No scary pressure spikes.

 

[ASbobcat]

ASbobcat - nice explanation - your results are very similar to mine: Stiller Diamondback, Bartlein 1:8" twist, 26", .246" NK, turned for .002" total clearance. The barrel "liked" just short of 35.0 Gr. of RL-17. As you noticed, I am pretty leery about sharing load info, where there is little published DATA from the powder manufacturer. When I want speed, and precision, RL-17 gets a look -it's very impressive in the .220 Ackley Swifts, and, via the .257 (Roberts) Ack. Imp., it's as if Alliant formulated this powder for the specific cartridge! May see ya at Mt. Palomar! RG

I shoot with po fokes. We can't afford pull-down frames, just a pickup truck. I could see the holes at 200yards, but the 30BR "mafia" has taken over that niche.

 

[ASbobcat]

I shot some IMR 4350 loads today. 75 Berger, Rem 7 1/2

32.0 Avg-3102
32.5 Avg-3164
33.0 Avg-3206
33.5 Avg-3252

SD with all these loads was between 12-15

Best group was 32.5 with it being literally one hole in 4 shots with the fifth being out by a hair from wind.

33.5 was right at .5"

33.5 will fill the case up pretty full. They need to be "tapped" a bit to settle the powder or poured very slow.

Overall I think 4350 is certainly a powder to consider, I know I will do further testing soon.

And from the above posts I WILL be trying R17

Nice information for comparison. My velocities were 100-150 fps less with H4350 in the 6.5x47Lapua.

Another consideration is throat wear. There was a post on RifleShooter.com back in April of 2014 that showed throat wear twice as fast with H4350 as RL17. My barrels heat up in the middle rather than in front of the chamber with RL17. This could explain the reduced rate of throat wear.

 

[ASbobcat]

ASbobcat - nice explanation - your results are very similar to mine: Stiller Diamondback, Bartlein 1:8" twist, 26", .246" NK, turned for .002" total clearance. The barrel "liked" just short of 35.0 Gr. of RL-17. As you noticed, I am pretty leery about sharing load info, where there is little published DATA from the powder manufacturer. When I want speed, and precision, RL-17 gets a look -it's very impressive in the .220 Ackley Swifts, and, via the .257 (Roberts) Ack. Imp., it's as if Alliant formulated this powder for the specific cartridge! May see ya at Mt. Palomar! RG

Next trip to the range will seek accuracy nodes. I will post ES and SD for max loads along with those results.

 

[xswanted]

Nice information for comparison. My velocities were 100-150 fps less with H4350 in the 6.5x47Lapua.

Another consideration is throat wear. There was a post on RifleShooter.com back in April of 2014 that showed throat wear twice as fast with H4350 as RL17. My barrels heat up in the middle rather than in front of the chamber with RL17. This could explain the reduced rate of throat wear.

That's interesting with regards to barrel heat and wear.

I shot a couple loads of 4320 along side the 4350 and the barrel was noticeably hotter just by touch with the 4320 than the 4350.

I'm anxious to try RL 17. Tomorrow!

 

[Phil]

Wondering how R-17 would work with the 75 amax in a 22 BR AI?????????

 

[Baddog0302]

Has anyone tried V V N N 150, N 550, or Norma 204 ? seams these have similar burns a s RL -17 ??

 

[ASbobcat]

Wondering how R-17 would work with the 75 amax in a 22 BR AI?????????

It should work very well. I just finished load development in a standard 22BR (see detail in this thread) and ran out of room for powder before reaching max pressure with 75gr Hornady BTHP. So a little extra boiler room should be beneficial.

 

[Phil]

It should work very well. I just finished load development in a standard 22BR (see detail in this thread) and ran out of room for powder before reaching max pressure with 75gr Hornady BTHP. So a little extra boiler room should be beneficial.

Kinda what i was thinking......

 

[ASbobcat]

Do you have a possible starting load for R17 and the 75 class bullets?

Thank you

Final field results with RL17 in 22BR. Excellent accuracy, impressive velocity, unlimited brass life (blue box).

28in Brux, .250NK, .002 neck clearance, 75gr BTHPM, CCI 450.

34.5gr 3355fps .26moa
34.8gr 3370fps .20moa
35.1gr 3414fps .58moa

Notice the jump in incremental velocity from 34.8 to 35.1gr. It is three times as much as increase from 34.5 to 34.8gr. From my experience, this is one indication of max pressure. Primer pockets were still .1710 at 35.1gr and there were no flattened or cratered primers. Bolt lift was normal and no ejector swipes.
Even though there were no other pressure signs, the velocity jump was, for me, a limit. Coincidentally, this was also max case capacity.

Now for the really interesting part. The ES of the 34.8gr load was 102 (SD 41)! And yet the vertical component was less than .1moa. Two of the groups shot in this string were single holes averaging .035moa. The third group increased the average because of inconsistency in neck thickness only revealed later.
Many on this forum obsess about ES/SD, but my experience with this and several other calibers causes me to ignore ES/SD in load development. There are too many other variables and the ONLY thing that matters to me is where the holes appear on the target.

This large ES/SD is normally typical of RL17 only at pressures well below maximum, but is not typical near max pressure. RL17 in my 6BR and 6.5x47L shows more typical ES/SD of 20/10 near max pressure.