225 ELD M - True BC/first hand experience?

[APGE]

Hi Folks,

I purchased a couple of hundred of these over the weekend, with a view to try in one of my 308s. Looking at them side by side with the 215 and 230 Bergers, I can help but be very sceptical about their BC claims. Their bearing surface seems significantly larger than both, with a much short boat tail.

Has anyone shot these and come up with any data to compare with the BC claims?

Does anyone know if the BC figures used in the Applied Ballistics app are ones that Litz has derived, or ones taken from Hornady ?

Cheerio,
Alex

 

[Rob01]

The BCs from Hornady are true. It's gotten from Doppler radar testing and is the most accurate you will get. Even Litz has said this of Doppler.

Hornady gives you the banded BC numbers. In a .308 you won't be getting the highest BC as your velocity will be slow as it will with the others you are shooting as well.

https://www.hornady.com/support/ballistic-coefficient

 

[steve123]

Hi Folks,

I purchased a couple of hundred of these over the weekend, with a view to try in one of my 308s. Looking at them side by side with the 215 and 230 Bergers, I can help but be very sceptical about their BC claims. Their bearing surface seems significantly larger than both, with a much short boat tail.

Has anyone shot these and come up with any data to compare with the BC claims?

Does anyone know if the BC figures used in the Applied Ballistics app are ones that Litz has derived, or ones taken from Hornady ?

Cheerio,
Alex

It's because of the size of the Meplats on the Bergers - If Berger would start pointing them like Sierra SMK and Nosler RDF??!!, which upped their BC's.

I use the H225's now because Berger is getting a bit proud on their prices and they have a higher .77BC. They worked great to 2100Y in my 30-375R.

 

[gilmillan1]

U need a large freebore to run them, I tried in a 280 fb and it was short.

 

[Ned Ludd]

It's because of the size of the Meplats on the Bergers - If Berger would start pointing them like Sierra SMK and Nosler RDF??!!, which upped their BC's.

I use the H225's now because Berger is getting a bit proud on their prices and they have a higher .77BC. They worked great to 2100Y in my 30-375R.

Hopefully, Berger is aware that the end user can do a much better job of pointing bullets than any machine in a factory and NEVER starts pointing their products at the factory. If you want [properly] pointed Berger bullets, buy one of these dies and point your own.

https://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/bullet-pointing-die-system-2/

http://bullettipping.com/

 

[steve123]

Hopefully, Berger is aware that the end user can do a much better job of pointing bullets than any machine in a factory and NEVER starts pointing their products at the factory. If you want [properly] pointed Berger bullets, buy one of these dies and point your own.

https://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/bullet-pointing-die-system-2/

http://bullettipping.com/

Too much extra work for this guy!!! Plus if I did want to go down that hole I'd want to trim Meplats first which means twice the extra work. But if that's what a guy wants to do....

Nah, it's factory pointed for me. Well more so just using the H225's instead.

I also use the 6mm 95gr SMK factory pointed bullets. Just looking at them with a Loupe I couldn't imagine a home pointing job will turn out much better but I've never tried. I just went out to the shop to look at 105 hybrid meplats and those factory pointed 95 SMK, as far as consistency as well as size of Meplat the 95 wins.

Do you really think there's enough difference comparing self pointing vs factory pointed??? Or a question the normal guy would ask is can I realize the difference?

After that we have to discuss "lost in the noise", in other words, is there a practical difference between real world vs theoretic's as far as comparing factory to home pointing?

And I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I want to know the truth either way.

Well the other thing is a bullet can be sorted for weight, bearing surface and Juenke'd. That's 5 steps all together if one includes the Meplat trimming and pointing. Poor souls...

 

[Rob01]

I agree Steve. I just use good bullets and load. No weighing, sorting or trimming.

 

[284winner]

Too much extra work for this guy!!! Plus if I did want to go down that hole I'd want to trim Meplats first which means twice the extra work. But if that's what a guy wants to do....

Nah, it's factory pointed for me. Well more so just using the H225's instead.

I also use the 6mm 95gr SMK factory pointed bullets. Just looking at them with a Loupe I couldn't imagine a home pointing job will turn out much better but I've never tried. I just went out to the shop to look at 105 hybrid meplats and those factory pointed 95 SMK, as far as consistency as well as size of Meplat the 95 wins.

Do you really think there's enough difference comparing self pointing vs factory pointed??? Or a question the normal guy would ask is can I realize the difference?

After that we have to discuss "lost in the noise", in other words, is there a practical difference between real world vs theoretic's as far as comparing factory to home pointing?

And I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I want to know the truth either way.

Well the other thing is a bullet can be sorted for weight, bearing surface and Juenke'd. That's 5 steps all together if one includes the Meplat trimming and pointing. Poor souls...

Plus just add another 231.00 to the price of the Berger's today. I understand that cost as is why I use Hornady bullets as well. For me, they are fine. Not competitive shooting so that extra X doesn't matter to me. Hitting 12x12 steel at 1000 yards constantly is simple...even with Hornadys.

 

[Rob01]

I do shoot competitively and using Hornady never slowed me down in PRS matches. I know some don't think there is much precision in those matches but there is more than some think.

 

[284winner]

I do shoot competitively and using Hornady never slowed me down in PRS matches. I know some don't think there is much precision in those matches but there is more than some think.

I was kinda throwing that comment out there for the staunch Berger guys. You know, the ones that WILL NOT shoot Hornadys!!! Figured I'd get some feedback from a Berger only user. Hornady is tough to beat regardless of the bullet coming apart issues with some people.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I'm trying not to step on any particular manufacturer's toes here, but I am not alone in noticing that factory points are not very uniform. I further believe this contributes to inconsistency on the target, although providing absolute "proof" that it is largely (or solely) due to the points may not be realistic. Nonetheless, I've directly compared bullets I've pointed myself to factory-pointed bullets, and there are obvious differences, particularly in the length of the points. For that reason I choose to point bullets myself, and not have to worry about it. It's really not such a huge time factor to sort and point bullets yourself; far less painful than, say, brass prep. My earlier point was simply that if Berger starts pointing bullets as part of the manufacturing process, I will no longer easily be able to do it myself, and to my own standards. So I'd really rather they don't adopt a factory pointing process.

 

[284winner]

I'm trying not to step on any particular manufacturer's toes here, but I am not alone in noticing that factory points are not very uniform. I further believe this contributes to inconsistency on the target, although providing absolute "proof" that it is largely (or solely) due to the points may not be realistic. Nonetheless, I've directly compared bullets I've pointed myself to factory-pointed bullets, and there are obvious differences, particularly in the length of the points. For that reason I choose to point bullets myself, and not have to worry about it. It's really not such a huge time factor to sort and point bullets yourself; far less painful than, say, brass prep. My earlier point was simply that if Berger starts pointing bullets as part of the manufacturing process, I will no longer easily be able to do it myself, and to my own standards. So I'd really rather they don't adopt a factory pointing process.

How about selling them with and without. Obviously the factory pointed would be a upgrade in price but the non pointed option for the guys that don't really care to buy the upgrade. Almost like the SMK and TMK.

 

[Ned Ludd]

How about selling them with and without. Obviously the factory pointed would be a upgrade in price but the non pointed option for the guys that don't really care to buy the upgrade. Almost like the SMK and TMK.

That would work.

 

[Down South]

Hi Folks,

I purchased a couple of hundred of these over the weekend, with a view to try in one of my 308s. Looking at them side by side with the 215 and 230 Bergers, I can help but be very sceptical about their BC claims. Their bearing surface seems significantly larger than both, with a much short boat tail.

Has anyone shot these and come up with any data to compare with the BC claims?

Does anyone know if the BC figures used in the Applied Ballistics app are ones that Litz has derived, or ones taken from Hornady ?

Cheerio,
Alex

At 1000 yards in my 8.5 twist barrel .308 I used Hornady's G7 number of .377 for long distance (slowest velocity band, Mach 1.75) tested in their 7 twist barrel and it was dead on with my drop numbers. Hornady claims in their testing that the numbers are a little lower in a 10 twist barrel. According to my testing/dope at 1000 yards the 8.5 twist is getting full BC.

 

[284winner]

At 1000 yards in my 8.5 twist barrel .308 I used Hornady's G7 number of .377 for long distance (slowest velocity band, Mach 1.75) tested in their 7 twist barrel and it was dead on with my drop numbers. Hornady claims in their testing that the numbers are a little lower in a 10 twist barrel. According to my testing/dope at 1000 yards the 8.5 twist is getting full BC.

So post your results. Numbers wise. Speeds, drop data, etc. Curious!

 

[Down South]

PM sent.

 

[jsthntn247]

So post your results. Numbers wise. Speeds, drop data, etc. Curious!

He can’t post his speeds on an open forum. 2870 with a 225 in a 308 would give folks on here heart attacks.

 

[Jdne5b]

He can’t post his speeds on an open forum. 2870 with a 225 in a 308 would give folks on here heart attacks.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Unless the shooter is as big as Jade, I'm thinking at 2870 with 225s in a F-TR gun you'd probably want to stake the shooter down with tent pegs LOL. It's not legal to anchor the bipod or rear bag to the ground, but I don't recall that the rules address staking down the shooter .

 

[DukeDuke]

He can’t post his speeds on an open forum. 2870 with a 225 in a 308 would give folks on here heart attacks.

that is fast! I do get 2870 fps, but not with 225s.