.224 calibers help me figure this out

[DanK]

OK.. I live in a rural area. I need a .224 caliber that has to be fairly quiet.,cannot have silencers in Mich). It has to shoot like a laser out to 250yards. I would like it to be in a 16 or 20 barrel. 223s are to loud.

I would be hunting with the gun and taking it to the range with my buddies for informal shooting. So it needs to shoot at least 2s and 3s. What are some good options for me.


I'm thinking something like half as loud as a 223 or close.

 

[LHSmith]

there is no such cartridge to perform with-in all the parameters you have set.
The best suggestion I can offer is a reduced loaded .221 Fireball, 22 hornet, or 17 HMR.
However, they ain't gonna be lazers, and the 2's and 3's criteria might be met inside 50 yards.

 

[DanK]

That's what I have been thinking about, a 221 fireball, or the 22br might work at its lowest end. I have been reading up on the 221 fireball and everyone that has one, loves it. I have not found one negative post on it, for what it was designed for dime size groups are OK with me, but as long as they don't get bigger than that with a custom barrel.

Same for the 22br.. I was thinking if I found an accuracy load that was at its lower spectrum of the table, it would be as quiet as the 221 fireball.. Don't know for sure, since I don't know anyone how has one. The only negative thing I can think of about the 22br is making your own cases out of a 6mmbr.

I might have to think about this a little more.

 

[RonRouse]

Dan, when it comes to forming a round from another parent case, it just doesn't get any easier than the 22BR round. Just take the 6BR case and neck it down, and load it and shoot it. No other changes are needed. I have 3 of themn and it's quite a neat cartridge. Hope this is helpful. Ron

 

[DanK]

OK.. I have finally made a decision.. Its going to be a 22br. Now, since I don't have dies or anything yet, how do I go about to ordering a barrel?

I am planning on getting a Savage target action or a drop port Acton,that's the easy part.

Any good gunsmiths in Michigan that can chamber,thread, and Install on action if I go drop port. Also what size chamber should I get? I really don't want to trim cases but if it makes it noticeably more accurate, then I will.

 

[LHSmith]

You have apparently made a concession in the noise requirement, as the 22 br will be louder than a 223,burns about 25% more powder)....but it will have laser-like trajectory.
Your short barrel requirement, I hope will also be waived....as a 22 BR with a 16-20 barrel doesn't make much sense.
Anyway, BEFORE buying anything, seek out a good gunsmith, tell him your design parameters, and go with his advice.
Also, be patient as the good builders will take several months to deliver.
This will be a big investment, so be sure this is what you want.

 

[DanK]

Lamar.. Alot of things I do don't make sense Based on the info in the Hornady book, I was comparing velocities between 22Br,221 fireball, and 223. This is what I came up with.

223 shooting a 55gr bullet lowest fps load was 2800fps
22br shooting 55gr bullet lowest fps load was 2600fps
221 fireball 55gr bullet lowest fps load was 2500fps

As you said I will not get what I want in those parameters. So since I would rather have the best accuracy available to me, I chose the 22br, thinking I could use a reduced loads. And If I ever wanted more speed, it would be available to me easy. Since the 22br was made for a handgun I thought that would work out well with a 16 or 20 barrel.

So by me looking at the speeds I thought that the 22br would be a little quieter. I like the shorter barrels because they are handy and not cobblesome for hunting. I Also thought that the 22br would shoot great out of a shorter barrel since in was made for a handgun of 14 to 15 inches.

I don't know Maybe I should looking at the Fireball again.

 

[7stwhunter]

one thing you have to worry about with going to that short barrel like that is just the fact that you wont be able to burn all your powder resulting in a massive flash and alot of noise

 

[NorCalMikie]

The .221 Fireball was designed for a "bolt action hand gun".
The Remington XP 100. Had one with a factory 10" barrel and it was in fact a "fireball". Switched to a 15" barrel and could hit steel at 300 yards with no problem.
Changed that to a 24" barrel and put the action in a rifle stock. A real shooter. No recoil to speak of and deadly accurate.

 

[redneckturkeycaller]

Please share your info with me. I have a preban Hbar colt. It is marked Sporter 223. Is this chambered for the Remington 223 or the 5.56. I understand that they are not the exact same. I have heard that military brass can cause excessive pressure in a Remington 223. Thanks in advance and have a wonderful day.

 

[fdshuster]

DanK: Just a thought: I cannot speak for anyone elses' 22BR, but mine must be loaded to very close to the top of the limits to perform. If powder is not at least touching the base of the seated bullet, group sizes will increase. I had to keep increasing powder 'til I started to get the beginning signs of high pressure, hard bolt lift, cratered primers), then I backed off 1/2 grain, and that is my consistant accuracy load. There is certainly nothing "quiet" about my 22BR when fired: seems a little louder than my 223s'. 24" Shilen, 1-12, .251" neck, Lapua, Fed. 205.

 

[DanK]

Hi Frank how have you been... I was afraid of that. I read that also about the 22br going to almost max load to shoot really well. I also have to think about the report also, since I don't use ear protection when I hunt. Yes, I know that I should wear ear protection in the woods.,I just said that because I know someone is going to tell me I always should wear ear protection.) That's the other reason for a milder report. I don't like my ears to ring.:crazy:

So it looks like I should be looking at the 223 again or the 221 fireball. I have been reading a lot about the fireball on the varmint forums,, and the guys say that its not that loud in a 18 to 20 inch barrel. But I did find out one problem with the fireball that people where complaining about, is that the primer falling out of the pockets. This probably happens when they reach max loads. I don't know for sure though.

Will your 223 ring your ears when your out in the woods? I Know it will at the range. But I have never heard one out in the open. Well I take that back, I have but don't remember:crazy:

 

[fdshuster]

DanK: Yes, the 221 Fireball is a great little round. Never had one, but several friends do, and I've kicked around the idea of having one of my Sako L-46s' "converted". The "fly-in-the-ointment", at least as I see it, is the requirement,?) that Remington brass be used: at the bottom of my list of favorite brass. With some degree of work, I guess they could be formed from Lapua 222Rem. As to ringing in the ears, can't comment on that. When firing, in field conditions, I use the Mine Safety Appliance foam squeeze down ear plugs with a 29 decibel rating. Honeycomb package of 60 pairs from Home Depot, for approx. $13 You have set some hard to fulfill requirements, sorta like "you can't have your cake and eat it too".

 

[epmn]

If you go with the 22BR I wouldn't worry too much about a 20" barrel. I have a Tikka master sporter in 22BR with a 20" barrel. With a 9 twist it loves the 69 and 75 grain bullets. But, the other comment is right about powder amount, I am loading close to the max powder to get the best accuracy.

You may want to look at the 22 Hornet, K Hornet or other older 22s since you are going to having the barrel chambered anyway.

epmn

 

[7stwhunter]

if your worried about brass failure maybe look at the 222Rem. little bit less case capacity which should add up to less noise but you also have the choice to use great lapua brass.

 

[LHSmith]

7stw makes a good point, 221 FB brass has infrequent production runs and therefore you have to plan far ahead.
222 brass however, is produced by Rem., Win., Lapua, RWS, and Norma.
The 222 was the cartridge of choice of the Benchrest game in the 60's and early '70's,or at least a close cousin, 222 1/2 etc.
If guy's are loading cartridges that hot,loose primer pockets), then it's time to discard the brass......everything comes at a price.

 

[DanK]

7stwhunter... I am not really that worried about the primer pockets falling out of the 221 fireball. I am sure there is a fix for that. Better brass.

epmm.... I have also looked at the hornet and others. To me they just don't preform the way I would like. I would at least like to get better than 1/2inch groups at 100yards. I have some Friends that shoot the hornets and they all shoot 1.5 groups at 100 yards.

The 222 is a viable one. It has won many, many matches in the day. I should look at that one also. I wonder witch one retains more accuracy 222,223 I suspect its probably a draw.

 

[DanK]

LHSMITH... When I was reading some of the treads on the fireball in the varmint forums, they where saying that, with new brass the pockets where to large after firing there first load, and they where not even at a near max load I would have to guess just bad brass from Remington. Because all the guys love there 221 fireball and report constantly 1/2 groups or better. I will go back and try to find out more data on this.

 

[Preacher]

I shoot a 22br in a 18 inch heavy barrel out of a XP action with no problems velocity wise, and don't loose much to a longer barrel... and it don't make any more noise than a .223 or my 221 fireballs..
Download it with H4895 and get to shooting........

 

[DanK]

Preacher..

Have you had any problems with your primer pockets being a little to large after your 1st firing of new brass? I have been reading some of the varmint forums and guys where complaining of that. I would like to know why this is happening and if there is a cure for it or not.

Never mind, I went back and found the tread again after looking for long time.. They where shooting close to or at max loads and only getting 3 to 4 reloads out of there brass. Since the 221 fireball shoots it best at or near max load, I don't think this would be a viable option for me. Plus I would want to get at least 10 reloads out of my brass.