.223AI or not?
- Thread starter JDBraddy
- Start date
considering i got ~7500 out of my last factory 223 barrel......i don't see how it's a waste to get 5000 more out of my current one... $350 is a lot of money for a new barrel when the factory one will shoot consistent 1/2" at 100yds already
JDBraddy said:Sounds like good arguments both ways. Somehow, I keep hearing "If it ain't broke....don't fix it".
5 shot groups at 100yds
not bad groups...could be a little tighter considering its 50ft. ;D ;D ;D
Catfish said:
As I mentioned before, I've had great results doing this.
When you are ready for a new premium barrel blank, you will have already formed brass for load development.
I recently finished my 1st 223 AI bbl - a 26" Krieger 1:7tw in sendero/Rem varmint contour for a new M700 action from Brownells. I trued the action, bushed the boltface, put a Holland lug on the bbl, then added a Jewell trigger, EGW 20 MOA sloped base, and bedded it in a McM A5 that was inletted for RD DM BM. Finished it by adding a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 in TPS TSR rings, and am having a blast with it.
The 7tw does a fine job of stabilizing Berger 90s - both the discontinued LR BT, and VLDs. Shot a LR steel match with it this past Sunday, and got hits on both the 1300 & 1400yd targets. No sighters, two shots for score - I used data printed out from the Point Mass Ballistics Solver that came with Bryan Litz's 2nd edition of App. Ballis. for LR Shooting. No, the Vortex PST's optics aren't on the same level as NF, S&B, etc, but it cost less than 1/3 what they do, and the clicks were pretty much dead-on. I ran out of internal elevation for the 1400yd target at 53.25 MOA, so held over with the 5 MOA hashmark on the vertical stadia, and got a hit. My cheat sheet called for 58.88 MOA up from a 100yd zero, so I'd say the Vortex clicks and reticle are pretty accurate.
As far as re-chambering a used factory barrel just for fireforming goes - with the current bullet price & availability issues, I wouldn't even consider it, unless that particular factory bbl was pretty darned accurate. If it is, then yeah, go ahead and shoot it. But with the current bullet price & availability issues, don't assume you're going to need to blast away just to get brass fireformed - I'm getting accuracy plenty adequate for 1000yds with FF loads using quality components. If there were more matches within easy driving distance, I'd fireform as much of my 223 AI brass as possible at matches.
The 7tw does a fine job of stabilizing Berger 90s - both the discontinued LR BT, and VLDs. Shot a LR steel match with it this past Sunday, and got hits on both the 1300 & 1400yd targets. No sighters, two shots for score - I used data printed out from the Point Mass Ballistics Solver that came with Bryan Litz's 2nd edition of App. Ballis. for LR Shooting. No, the Vortex PST's optics aren't on the same level as NF, S&B, etc, but it cost less than 1/3 what they do, and the clicks were pretty much dead-on. I ran out of internal elevation for the 1400yd target at 53.25 MOA, so held over with the 5 MOA hashmark on the vertical stadia, and got a hit. My cheat sheet called for 58.88 MOA up from a 100yd zero, so I'd say the Vortex clicks and reticle are pretty accurate.
As far as re-chambering a used factory barrel just for fireforming goes - with the current bullet price & availability issues, I wouldn't even consider it, unless that particular factory bbl was pretty darned accurate. If it is, then yeah, go ahead and shoot it. But with the current bullet price & availability issues, don't assume you're going to need to blast away just to get brass fireformed - I'm getting accuracy plenty adequate for 1000yds with FF loads using quality components. If there were more matches within easy driving distance, I'd fireform as much of my 223 AI brass as possible at matches.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
bigedp51 said:Leave your rifle alone and shoot it till the barrel is toast.............
When your zombie targets look like above and you can't make those critical head shots anymore then think about another barrel.
I would like to thank bozo699 for letting me use a photo of his practice target from his best shooting rifle.
Ed,
When you asked to borrow this photo from me I had no idea you were going to use it to humiliate me on the internet with it or I wouldn't have loaned it to you, I have since tightened my load up some and at 25 yards I can do some better then this now. Frank I am surprised you were laughing at my expense
On a serious note I have two model 700 Remington's almost identical except I had one chambered in .223AI when it had about 500 rounds on it, it gave me a little more distance then my std. .223 and I like the brass lasting without trimming however in my case both are factory rifles other then tuned triggers and of course the AI chamber in the one but the .223 has always been a 1/4 minute rifle if I do my part the AI was a 1/2 minute rifle when .223 and after the AI it is about .750
With 2000 rounds on it unless the smith was a good friend that would make you a heck of a deal I wouldn't consider it, I see yours is already a 3/4 MOA rifle and that would seal it for me, I would shoot it out and rebarrel it or rebarrel it right now if you really want a .223AIEd I will see you in the funnies my friend
Wayne.
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
vmthtr said:
Mike......pics worth a 1000 words.....
Some cases for comparison.....
221 Fireball --- 222 Rem --- 223 REM --- 223 Ackley --- 222 Rem mag --- 22-204
The 22-204 has about one more grain capacity than a 223 Ackley and almost two more than a 222 RM, and NO FIREFORMING required.
An all around better mouse trap......
alf said:vmthtr said:
Mike......pics worth a 1000 words.....
Some cases for comparison.....
221 Fireball --- 222 Rem --- 223 REM --- 223 Ackley --- 222 Rem mag --- 22-204
The 22-204 has about one more grain capacity than a 223 Ackley and almost two more than a 222 RM, and NO FIREFORMING required.
An all around better mouse trap......
I also like that the 222, 222RM and 22-204 have nice long necks.
-Mac
Boiler-Up-
Got my 223 AI reamer from Kiff at PT&G, but don't recall now whether I asked for the same freebore as the Wylde, or the 223 Match. Since he never sent a reamer print, I don't know what freebore I've got. Whatever - I'm jumping both the VLDs & LR BTs about .020", and the OALs (using a Sinclair hex-shape comparator) are 2.872" for the VLD, and 2.943" for the LR BT.
Far as powder goes, I've tried RL15, PP2000MR, & N550. RL15 gives good accuracy, but the lowest velocities; 2000MR gives better velocity & fine accuracy, and N550 gives the highest velocity, along with good accuracy. 2000MR is easy to load - I'm just using thrown charges out of a Harrell's large meter. RL15 is easier to trickle-up than N550 - IOW, pick your poison. Actually, I haven't really worked with N550 much in this bbl, though I have fired some N550/JLK90VLD rounds through it that were left-overs from AR15 SR HP days. Don't have any chrono data for it in this barrel; only vel data I've got for N550 is out of a 30" Bartlein 5R in std 223. Whatever - I'm getting a little over 2800fps with 2000MR.
Got my 223 AI reamer from Kiff at PT&G, but don't recall now whether I asked for the same freebore as the Wylde, or the 223 Match. Since he never sent a reamer print, I don't know what freebore I've got. Whatever - I'm jumping both the VLDs & LR BTs about .020", and the OALs (using a Sinclair hex-shape comparator) are 2.872" for the VLD, and 2.943" for the LR BT.
Far as powder goes, I've tried RL15, PP2000MR, & N550. RL15 gives good accuracy, but the lowest velocities; 2000MR gives better velocity & fine accuracy, and N550 gives the highest velocity, along with good accuracy. 2000MR is easy to load - I'm just using thrown charges out of a Harrell's large meter. RL15 is easier to trickle-up than N550 - IOW, pick your poison. Actually, I haven't really worked with N550 much in this bbl, though I have fired some N550/JLK90VLD rounds through it that were left-overs from AR15 SR HP days. Don't have any chrono data for it in this barrel; only vel data I've got for N550 is out of a 30" Bartlein 5R in std 223. Whatever - I'm getting a little over 2800fps with 2000MR.
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
JDBraddy said:
As a 223AI the gun won't shoot any different, just faster. And .75moa isn't very good. The gun should be a lot more accurate than that. Firstly I'd be messing with it to do better, or find out why. If that's truly all the gun will do, don't waste any more money on it. If it were shooting 1/4-3/8" I'd say yeah, go ahead. Be aware that rechambering to AI you'll want to remove the whole barrel shank and give it enough new chamber to clean up all the old chamber taper and also have a complete new neck and throat. There's nothing wrong with rechambering a factory barrel, if it's a good one to begin with.
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