I am seeking some valued input from fellow members. I am getting ready to do a new build for this year. I have a Stevens 200 .223 that I am looking to build up for a 500 yd and in coyote rifle. I am having a dilemma. I currently have a Howa with a 26 ", 1.20" dia straight pipe, GM 1-8tw shooting 65 SGKs at 3125 FPS and it is working awesome for the application it was built for. It however weighs 16 lbs. I know I want to stay with the 223 based case and want to maintain good barrel life. I am looking at building a 26" varmint tapered 223 AI or a 6 TCU (ST). I want to use the 75 AMAX in the 223AI or the 87gr Berger HVLD or 87 VMAX in the 6TCU. My main questions is which would y'all advise for caliber first … then what twist for each cal for the given bullets I listed. IE … 1-8 or maybe 1-7.7 for the 223 AI? Also barrel manufacturers … I am leaning towards Bartlein or Krieger. I would like to achieve 3000 FPS for each of the listed cal/bullet combos listed above with reasonable charged loads. Thanks, Gary
223AI or 6TCU (short throat) coyote rifle
- Thread starter GR5150
- Start date
Are you just killing them or selling the hides? How much thread do you have? ;D
I am sorry for not stating I will not be selling the hides. Down here in TX our coyotes are not worth much. The last time I talked to a fur buyer he stated $5-10 bucks skinned. I have a 17 rem that I shoot from time to time if we are targeting a bobcat to keep. We hunt the WTBBC series, which last month had a 1st place prize of $26,000. So it is about putting them on the ground. The wind is always a factor as well, so I want to shoot a High BC bullet with good terminal ballistics. My Howa does well from the varmint rack shooting chair … but I want a rifle I can carry easier as well. I used to shoot the boomers … 243, 25-06, 270, 308 and almost got a 7 STW. My shoulder and I don't care for the boomers and a muzzle brake is not friendly to my hunting partners. I will say that I have never lost a coyote with any of the boomers, no matter where they were hit.
Not much help but the 87 V-max will put them down with authority. ;D
Regards, Paul
www.boltfluting.com
Regards, Paul
www.boltfluting.com
My 8tw .223AI stabilizes the 80 gr. A-Max at 3050 fps from a 26" tube. Great killer to about 400 yards but lacks energy transfer much after that on SC PA Woodchucks. I've only reached to 350 yards with the 87 gr. V-Max in my 6X47L and it certainly killed at that range starting at 3350 fps. My experiences suggest the 105 gr. A-Max at 3200 fps and have killed, decidedly, at 900 yards with my 28" 8tw .243AI. Hope this helps and of course JMHO. 
MarkS
Silver $$ Contributor
Gary,
I have 223AI 8tw that shoots 80gr Berger great, it is a long range target gun. You will come close 3000f/s with the 75amax. As far as the 6TCU, no experence. I looked up load data for 6x45, very close to 6TCU. It will get to 2850f/s. The 6X47 (222 mag necked up) or a 6mm x 204R ( 204R necked up to 6mm) they will get you a little more speed or look at the 6mm 75gr vmax. Before I started using the 87vmax, I used the 70gr blitzking. if you are looking at 500yds max, the lighter bullet work great, and would +3100f/s
Now for the 87gr Vmax, it is a great long range varmint bullet, I think it is the best long range varmint bullet.
I'm with you on the bigger rounds. I had the 6AI and 243AI, but now shoot 6BR and 6BRX ( 6BR imp ). I know you are looking at a 223 case, but have you looked at the 6BR. You can change the bolthead on your Steven. I get 3200f/s with my 12tw 6br with the 87gr vmax great killer.
I would go with a Criterion pre chambered barrel for http://northlandshooterssupply.com/
God luck
Mark Schronce
I have 223AI 8tw that shoots 80gr Berger great, it is a long range target gun. You will come close 3000f/s with the 75amax. As far as the 6TCU, no experence. I looked up load data for 6x45, very close to 6TCU. It will get to 2850f/s. The 6X47 (222 mag necked up) or a 6mm x 204R ( 204R necked up to 6mm) they will get you a little more speed or look at the 6mm 75gr vmax. Before I started using the 87vmax, I used the 70gr blitzking. if you are looking at 500yds max, the lighter bullet work great, and would +3100f/s
Now for the 87gr Vmax, it is a great long range varmint bullet, I think it is the best long range varmint bullet.
I'm with you on the bigger rounds. I had the 6AI and 243AI, but now shoot 6BR and 6BRX ( 6BR imp ). I know you are looking at a 223 case, but have you looked at the 6BR. You can change the bolthead on your Steven. I get 3200f/s with my 12tw 6br with the 87gr vmax great killer.
I would go with a Criterion pre chambered barrel for http://northlandshooterssupply.com/
God luck
Mark Schronce
MarkS, I wanted to do a 6BR awhile back, but i want a repeater that will feed well and it is a lot of work to get a BR to feed from what Ive read and personal experience from other shooters/smiths Ive talked to. The 6BR is an awesome round for sure. Great accuracy, velocity and barrel life. My smith is recommending going 223 AI or with a 6 Creedmore (his personal coyote choice). I have a ton of once fired Winchester 223 Brass. The 6 TCU from what Ive read is right on par velocity wise with the 6x47 Remington and should get an 87 grain bullet to 3K without wheezing primer pockets after 2 firings in a 26 in pipe. Dave Kiff at PTG has a reamer print for a 6TCU that is shorter throated than a normal 6TCU reamer used for the TC silhouette shooters with the 120-140 gr bullets. Id love to do a 6x45, but it will not achieve the velocity Im looking for with the 87 gr pills. Keep the info and suggestions coming please. Especially regarding the 6BR, if someone has a way to get it to reliably feed as a repeater for a reasonable price Id look into that. A new bolt head for a savage bolt is $20-30. Thanks, Gary
8tw stabilizes the 80 gr. A-Max in my .223AI.
Sounds like a 1-8 tw is good to go with the 75 AMAX. I have tried a few loss in my 1-8 tw 223, but the groups were not good at all. The 75 BTHPs shot well, but I wasn't real sure about the terminal ballistics on coyotes with them. Thanks to everyone that responded and I aways welcome experienced advice.
My buddy built a custom .223 with an 8 twist carbon barrel around the 75 gr amax. It was accurate but had rainbow trajectory at its best accuracy node and he hit and lost ALLOT of coyotes. .223 just doesn't deliver the jam if you need drt. My 8twist .22-250 does though. I'd go that route for a coyote stopper.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Coyotes are not paper targets, they have a will to live that is nothing short of unbelievable. I have hunted coyotes for a long time, and your cartridge choices are poot to say the least for killing at those ranges. It takes speed to get a bullet to open up.
Animals don't often give you the chance to shoot the range, it is snap shooting with your best judgment.
500 yards is a poke, and without horse power, you will more than likely loose the animal IF you are able to connect. A 22/250 AI shooting 60g Bergers at 3700 fps is a great combo for the yardage you are talking about. You really need to break the coyotes diaphragm to keep him on the ground, that takes hydrostatic shock or exact bullet placement. The 243 Winchester is also a great round shooting the 80g Sierra Blitz BT at 3400 fps with IMR 4064, this bullet will expand way on out there.
Your gunsmith's recommendation of the 6 Creedmoor is an excellent choice, I would run with that!
Animals don't often give you the chance to shoot the range, it is snap shooting with your best judgment.
500 yards is a poke, and without horse power, you will more than likely loose the animal IF you are able to connect. A 22/250 AI shooting 60g Bergers at 3700 fps is a great combo for the yardage you are talking about. You really need to break the coyotes diaphragm to keep him on the ground, that takes hydrostatic shock or exact bullet placement. The 243 Winchester is also a great round shooting the 80g Sierra Blitz BT at 3400 fps with IMR 4064, this bullet will expand way on out there.
Your gunsmith's recommendation of the 6 Creedmoor is an excellent choice, I would run with that!
Phil, they'll be dead alright!!! 
GR5150, if I had to choose between the 6-223AI (6TCU/6x45AI), or the 223AI for coyotes, I'd choose the larger bore.
The larger frontal mass of a 6mm bullet at nearly the same speed just hits a coyote harder. I shot 6x45s for several years, and it stomped coyotes at normal range quite a bit more reliably than my .223 did (1:8/65Gkings). If you read around the 'net, you'll notice that several 6x45 shooters have experienced the same phenomenon. It just kills better than the parent case .223Rem.
With that in mind, I don't think it'd be a stretch to draw a parallel with both cases AI'ed, and come to the same conclusion. The bigger bore is gonna kill better at normal calling range. If you want a .224 caliber to kill like a hammer, you're gonna wanna have alot bigger motor under the hood. .22-250, .220Swift, any of the necked down .243 cases, or any AI variants thereof. These larger cases will allow for 3-600fps more velocity from a heavy .224 cal. bullet, that translates to a significantly higher level of smackdown. And wonderfully flat trajectory, to boot. But, I digress...
Even if you did a straight 6x45 on your Howa, you should be getting pretty close to 3K from long 26" barrel. But I do agree with the logic to fireform for a few more grains capacity, especially from a bolt gun! Take 100 or 2 cases, load 'em up & go pop armadillos & p-dogs
Viola, you'll have formed cases to throttle up, and should very well get 3K from an 87Vmax when its all said & done. Bet you'd see even more speed from an 87gr VLD, due to it having less bearing surface. Combined with the higher b.c., the VLD might allow for a tad flatter trajectory. Thought about trying some in mine, but that 87Vmax is just so cheap, easy to find & accurate. Moreover, its a hateful coyote bullet, even from a pipsqueek .223 based 6mm...
Good luck & have fun!!!
GR5150, if I had to choose between the 6-223AI (6TCU/6x45AI), or the 223AI for coyotes, I'd choose the larger bore.
The larger frontal mass of a 6mm bullet at nearly the same speed just hits a coyote harder. I shot 6x45s for several years, and it stomped coyotes at normal range quite a bit more reliably than my .223 did (1:8/65Gkings). If you read around the 'net, you'll notice that several 6x45 shooters have experienced the same phenomenon. It just kills better than the parent case .223Rem.
With that in mind, I don't think it'd be a stretch to draw a parallel with both cases AI'ed, and come to the same conclusion. The bigger bore is gonna kill better at normal calling range. If you want a .224 caliber to kill like a hammer, you're gonna wanna have alot bigger motor under the hood. .22-250, .220Swift, any of the necked down .243 cases, or any AI variants thereof. These larger cases will allow for 3-600fps more velocity from a heavy .224 cal. bullet, that translates to a significantly higher level of smackdown. And wonderfully flat trajectory, to boot. But, I digress...
Even if you did a straight 6x45 on your Howa, you should be getting pretty close to 3K from long 26" barrel. But I do agree with the logic to fireform for a few more grains capacity, especially from a bolt gun! Take 100 or 2 cases, load 'em up & go pop armadillos & p-dogs
Viola, you'll have formed cases to throttle up, and should very well get 3K from an 87Vmax when its all said & done. Bet you'd see even more speed from an 87gr VLD, due to it having less bearing surface. Combined with the higher b.c., the VLD might allow for a tad flatter trajectory. Thought about trying some in mine, but that 87Vmax is just so cheap, easy to find & accurate. Moreover, its a hateful coyote bullet, even from a pipsqueek .223 based 6mm...
Good luck & have fun!!!
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Phil, I am about to chamber one of the 22-243 AI myself, I have had stellar luck with the 22/250 AI on coyotes using the 55g Sierra and Nosler, but I feel the need for take things up a notch.
Phil
Gold $$ Contributor
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Been a while since this post was active. Since then, I have had some very good barrels chambered:
A. 6-204 Ruger-24", 14T, 70g Nosler ballistic tips at 3517
B. 22-243 AI on a Hart 14T, 23", 60g Sierra at 4000, shoots very tiny bug holes
C. 22-204 Ruger, 26" 14T, 53-55g bullets with IMR xbr 8208 at 3700 is real world with 1/4" groups and less
D. 22-204 Ruger, 26" Shilen 9T with 69gTMK at 3350, 60g TMK at 3450 with CFE 223
A. 6-204 Ruger-24", 14T, 70g Nosler ballistic tips at 3517
B. 22-243 AI on a Hart 14T, 23", 60g Sierra at 4000, shoots very tiny bug holes
C. 22-204 Ruger, 26" 14T, 53-55g bullets with IMR xbr 8208 at 3700 is real world with 1/4" groups and less
D. 22-204 Ruger, 26" Shilen 9T with 69gTMK at 3350, 60g TMK at 3450 with CFE 223
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