223AI - a good choice?

[nightwalker]

Advice needed please!

I am about to purchase a Cooper Model 21 in 223AI 1:14 twist 24" bbl, for crow and fox shooting out to about 300 yards. I reload my own ammunition.

Do you think this is a good calibre to go for or would I be better with a 20 calibre?

Don't want to buy one then think I should have bought a different one!!

Comments much appretiated..

 

[vonb]

With the 1/14 twist, you are going to be limited to the lighter bullets. From what I've read, guys like to go with a 1/8 twist to take advantage of the extra powder capacity as well as being able to shoot the heavier bullets for WOT,way out there). With the 1/14 twist, wind and BC is going to be the challenge.

I'm planning a .223AI build in the future. I will be going a 1/8 so I can shoot 75gr AMAX and can also shoot the 50gr VMAX should I desire.

 

[Flybuster]

Hello, I think you will like your Cooper. I have a Cooper varminter in 22 ppc. Real similar in velocity to your 223 ackley, and the 223 A.I is no slouch in the accuracy department. It will have the 1-14" so 50 Grain V-maxes will be good out to 300 yards no problem. I personally use 40 grain bullets, for squirrels and have hit squirrels a little past 300 with it. Its not a real, sudden death so with the 40 grain bullets 300 yards is max.
I think the 223 Ackley is a great choice. Ps, 55 grain soft points would be good on those foxes too.

I would be tempted to get a .204 ruger, for what you want. I can really see your dilema. I believe the .204 would be flatter shooting, but what about accuracy?

 

[people]

You should not have any problems with your gun using the lighter bullets. I do like using the heavier ones also but for crows and Fox they are really not needed.

 

[vmthtr]

I have a 223 AI and it is my favorite prairie dog rifle. ,although my son seems to have layed claim to it) Easy a 400 yard gun and have made shots out to 600 with it. I am shooting the 50 Vmax out of a 14 twist Hart take off BR barrel.

Mike

 

[Ackman]

Those are beautiful rifles and that's a great cartridge. A 14 twist is exactly what you want. Posting velocity always brings out the naysayers, but accuracy loads through that gun with 50's should be 3750-3850. With 40's your accuracy loads should be anywhere from 4000-4200. This is depending on powder and components, but these are realistic velocities. In the field with an actual usable zero it's a tossup between that and a .204....trajectory is identical. At 400yds or so there's maybe a nickel's worth of difference in windage. And there're tons of .22cal varmint bullets. I think the .223AI is a good choice.

Addition: Trajectory with a 225yd zero, which is less than 1" high at 100 and pretty much what what would be used in the field......

Using velocities from my gun.
.223AI ---300yd drop/windage 10mph crosswind
50@3825........... -3.2"/6.7"
40@4150........... -2.7"/6.5"

I don't shoot this round....velocities are from what I've read.
.204-----300yd drop/windage 10mph crosswind
39@3800........... -3.1"/5.8"
32@4100........... -2.8"/7.0"

6500' elevation, 80* temp., 1.8" sight height.
.

 

[Flybuster]

I just ran some ballistics comparing the 204 to the 223ackley. The 204 is slightly flatter shooting at 300 yards,less than 3 inches). I still think the advantage is with the 223ackley because you have more bullets to choose from. Its legal for deer in some states. And it just plain looks cool!

 

[AckleymanII]

I have had 3 custom 22 PPC's with hart barrels with 24-29" MHV barrel contours, and some how the 223 AI is faster by 200 fps with the 50's and 100 fps faster with the 55's, with just same accuracy. I am using IMI brass, Rem 7 1/2's or CCI-BR-4's, 50 and 55g Ballistic Tip bullets, loaded with N-133 with the 50's and N-135 with the 55's.

Typical velocity is 3800-3850+ with the 50's and 3650 with the 55's, and I always neck size the cases, having never used the full length sizer,never lost a primer pocket also).

I shoot 1 1/2" groups at 400 yards, never missing the 2 3/4" MINI clay pigeons at 400 yards, and shooting the tiny pieces that are left over if they don't completely disintergrate.

If you are going to order a Cooper, I would get a 26" barrel if at all possible along with adding a Shrewd muzzle break,available from Brownell's at $45) and the gun will kick like a 22 long rifle!

 

[Clark]

I shoot thousands of rounds of .223 in the last two years.

I have a .257 Roberts Ackley, but fireforming cases means I have only fired a few hundred rounds in 5 years.

I would not get the .223A if you are going to shoot thousands of rounds at rodents.

 

[AckleyImproved]

I have Remington LTR in 223 that is going to get a new barrel very soon. It will be a 1:8 twist, chambered for 223AI.

The rifle will get a Manners stock, and a #7 profile barrel finished at 24".

It will be used with 75Amax and 80MK's. Velocity should be around the 2850-2900fps, just where I want to be!

Cheers
AI

 

[vmthtr]

I shoot thousands of rounds of .223 in the last two years.

I have a .257 Roberts Ackley, but fireforming cases means I have only fired a few hundred rounds in 5 years.

I would not get the .223A if you are going to shoot thousands of rounds at rodents.

Just because they need fireformed does not mean you can't use it. I fireform at prairie dogs. One year using regular brass and then 10 years using fireformed brass. No reason not to..

Mike

 

[Ackman]

I shoot thousands of rounds of .223 in the last two years.

I have a .257 Roberts Ackley, but fireforming cases means I have only fired a few hundred rounds in 5 years.

I would not get the .223A if you are going to shoot thousands of rounds at rodents.

You have some wrong ideas. Fireform loads are hunting loads and shooting a "fireform" AI load is no different than shooting a standard cartridge......same accuracy only faster and you get a fireformed case as the result. The .223AI does about 3650-3700 very accurately with 50's while fireforming. In my .257AI, the fireform accuracy load is 87's doing 3636fps. It's good on rockchucks. Obviously neither of those two rifles are handicapped in any way shooting fireform loads. Those loads are not only very accurate, they're also well faster than a standard chambering. I have a bunch of other AI rifles and they also perform beautifully while fireforming.

 

[Flybuster]

I dissagree when people say Ackley improving is not worth the "hassle" for the little velocity increase. For one its not really a hassle to fireform a standard cartridge, like mentioned. Just do it while practicing or on varmints no big deal. The real benifits to me are less case stretching and brass stability. Who likes to trim, I sure don't. Ackliezing only reduces that neccessity. I have a 25-06 ackley which I have shot this brass with moderate loads and have only bumped shoulders twice now, the brass has been used alot this year.

As for the 22ppc and 223 ackley, I did'nt realize you could push the 223AI harder than the PPC. My good friend has a 223 ackley that shoots just as good or better than my 22ppc. Both factory barrels, just re-reamed.

The ackley cartridges just have this cool factor, with masculine shoulders unlike the feminine standard cartridges.

 

[acloco]

Just because they need fireformed does not mean you can't use it. I fireform at prairie dogs. One year using regular brass and then 10 years using fireformed brass. No reason not to..

Mike

Ditto on this! Fireform and then load for bear after the brass is the correct shape.