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223 with 80 ELD match

I pick up 500 80 ELM match I been playing with 77 and 80 smk but like most I’m running low so I thought I give these a try out of my 1/7 223 bolt. Never shot this bullets so just wondering do most jam them or jump them? I know “find what my barrel likes” but basically just looking for a starting point
plan on using this as a 300 yard gun to save my other stuff for longer ranges
thanks
 
In a good match bolt gun, a guess is to start them at the same CBTO as you were using with the SMK 80 and explore from there, or at least put the bearing-boat tail junction above the case shoulder junction to see how that looks against your chamber dimensions.
Sometimes it is nice when you don't have to shove the bullet past the shoulder, other times you don't get a choice.
YMMV
 
In my rifles A-Max likes to jump 0.030" and the BTHP likes 0.020"; my stash is deep enough that I haven't used ELDs other than in 338 Lapua, and I'm not finished developing that load. Across multiple barrels and chambers in .223 and .284 those jumps have held constant.
 
From my 1st check the ELD‘s go further in the case than the SMK’s with both having bearing surface in the case. So so much for that lol. one of the things I was hoping was the ELD would set farther out but it an’t happening #$&*
I was jumping the SMK 0.020
 
If I have no prior experience or knowledge about a particular bullet, I generally start with it seated at .015" off the lands. I have no interest in jamming a bullet unless it is the only option available to get it to shoot, and I may well simply choose a different bullet in that event. Regardless, I would start charge weight testing with the bullet seated at .015" off the lands, beginning at a reliably safe charge weight and working up carefully. The reason for choosing .015" off as the initial seating depth will become obvious in the next step, but it's basically so that you are optimizing charge weight approximately in the middle of the seating depth range you will test subsequently. In my hands, moving a jumped bullet .015" or so in either direction is typically not enough to change velocity/pressure markedly, so you probably won't have to go back and re-optimize charge weight again after the seating depth test.

Once a suitable charge weight has been selected, I would then test seating depth from perhaps .003" off to .030" off the lands. I start at around .003" off because I generally have not had good results with bullets seated right at "touching" the lands. Chances are very good you will find a decent seating depth optimum window within that range that is at least 2-3 increments (.003") wide. Load to the longest increment; i.e. if equally good groups are obtained at .015" and .018" off, load to .015" off. This will allow the most headroom for land erosion before seating depth needs to be re-visited. Of the many bullets I have loaded over the years, only one has failed to display an optimal seating depth window within the range of .003" to .030" off when tested in this fashion. That particular bullet was the .224" Nosler 77 RDF, and it tuned in between ~.030" and .040" off the lands. This approach has worked for a variety of different bullets including VLDs, Hybrids, and tangent ogive bullets.

In the event an optimal seating depth window is NOT found between .003" and .030" off, then you have a couple choices. You can try testing even further from the lands, which is exactly what I had to do with the 77 RDF bullet. Just be aware that if you have to seat the bullet a lot farther from the lands than the seating depth at which you did the charge weight testing (i.e. .015" off), you may need to reduce (i.e. re-optimize) the charge weight. This is because pressure can increase due to the smaller [effective] case volume as the bullet is seated deeper into the case. How far past .030" off the lands pressure might become a significant issue and require charge weight correction/reduction can only be determined by the person testing.

The other choice would be to start seating the bullet into the lands. In my hands, a few bullets have worked really well seated into the lands, very often in a window from about .003" or .004" in to about .007" or .008" in. In fact, bullets such as the .224" 90 VLD will often shoots lights out seated slightly into the lands, but the window can sometimes be quite narrow. However, in my experience, many bullets will shoot just as well seated somewhere off the lands, and usually with a more forgiving (i.e. wider) window. That is why I generally don't attempt to jam bullets until the other alternatives have been exhausted. In fairness, I shoot F-TR competition and this approach has served me well, including with a variety of heavy .224" bullets in .223 Rem. That does not mean it is necessarily a good approach for other disciplines, especially those where jamming bullets might be considered more the norm. The bullet of choice as well as the particular discipline have a lot to do with where and how the load might be expected to tune in. This is the recipe I have used when loading for F-Class and/or general shooting. Just be aware that if you have different and/or very specific needs, other approaches may serve you better.
 
I always start jammed with any projectile. Figure out where my practical max is and then start development.
The reason I ask is, with a Wylde chamber, my 80 SMK are waaay out around 2.450 before they touch the lands => most of the bearing surface is not in the case.
 
I have experimented with the 80 ELD a few times. My notes show that the last time I shot it, COAL was 2.350 and that it shot well but my load had room for more powder. Standard 223 chamber.
 
With the ELD-M, like the AMAX before it, they don't need to be jammed into the lands in any calibers. I usually start .020" off the lands and rarely move. My 75 ELD-M load is at .020" off in my Wylde chamber and shoots great. You can jump them further also. I have some other ELDs that jump .090 and also very accurate so don't think they need to be jammed into the lands like some other bullets to be accurate.
 
The reason I ask is, with a Wylde chamber, my 80 SMK are waaay out around 2.450 before they touch the lands => most of the bearing surface is not in the case.
You have too much throat for the bullet then. Did you tell your gunsmith you wanted to use that Sierra pill and supply him with some dummy cartridges?
 
No he doesn't. That's touching the lands. He can just seat it back in some and jump it. The SMKs jump very well like the ELD-Ms.
I will explain further. My process if very similar to Ned Ludd's above. I start jammed and increase my powder charge with a single case ie load fire load fire load fire, until the case fails or I run into pressure. This tells me what the practical max for the case is. I would then start my process as described above in the aforementioned post. If his bullet is barely hanging in the case touching the lands, then I would suggest it probably has too much throat for his chosen bullet. I'm not suggesting his load will be jammed, but it's where I like to start.
I have shot FTR at a high level for many years and don't like jammed loads as it can run you into trouble in competition, but it's always good to have that option especially when it comes to fireforming cases and testing bullets.
 
I will explain further. My process if very similar to Ned Ludd's above. I start jammed and increase my powder charge with a single case ie load fire load fire load fire, until the case fails or I run into pressure. This tells me what the practical max for the case is. I would then start my process as described above in the aforementioned post. If his bullet is barely hanging in the case touching the lands, then I would suggest it probably has too much throat for his chosen bullet. I'm not suggesting his load will be jammed, but it's where I like to start.
I have shot FTR at a high level for many years and don't like jammed loads as it can run you into trouble in competition, but it's always good to have that option especially when it comes to fireforming cases and testing bullets.

All well and good if you do it that way but telling him he has too much throat for the bullet isn't really the case.
 
I will explain further. My process if very similar to Ned Ludd's above. I start jammed and increase my powder charge with a single case ie load fire load fire load fire, until the case fails or I run into pressure. This tells me what the practical max for the case is. I would then start my process as described above in the aforementioned post. If his bullet is barely hanging in the case touching the lands, then I would suggest it probably has too much throat for his chosen bullet. I'm not suggesting his load will be jammed, but it's where I like to start.
I have shot FTR at a high level for many years and don't like jammed loads as it can run you into trouble in competition, but it's always good to have that option especially when it comes to fireforming cases and testing bullets.
At 2.450, the SMK 80 is over a caliber deep in the case.
 
Would you guys check me on something?

In one of the OP's posts he says: "ELD‘s go further in the case than the SMK’s with both having bearing surface in the case".

I took that to mean that there is no bearing surface that's outside of the case neck.
That didn't compute for me. Hence the question about which chamber and then my example of the SMK being able to be loaded long enough so there's lots of bearing surface outside of the case.

Does that compute?

Thanks
 

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