223 Win for FTR - use Small Base Bushing die 100% of the time - Good or Bad Idea

[Buzz_Man]

I am starting to buy 223 Win reloading equipment and was wondering if using a small base bushing die 100% of the time is advisable or not for a single shot bolt gun.

I currently shot 308 in FTR match’s and I am adding a new rifle in 223 Win Match chambering and was wondering if I should go with a small base bushing die all the time or would it be better to go with a regular 223 Win FL bushing die and add a small base body die if needed after multiple firings of the brass cases.

Going with the small base die all the time would save a little bit of money as well as time by eliminate added resizing step when brass gets higher number of reloads and the occasional bolt click starts to show up. Or would the small base die work the brass more and cause decrease brass life and/or cause a decrease in accuracy vs using the regular die size?

I look forward to reading the responses.

 

[mgdietrich]

Get a die that matches your chamber, or close. If you are talking a factory chambered rifle, I am guessing a standard FL die will be just fine. If you have a tight match chamber then a SB might be worth it, but it all depends upon the chamber and sizing die relationship. SB dies were usually for Auto loading rifles with big chambers.

 

[XTR]

My chambers are all cut with a PTG ISSF reamer, never needed small base dies. I think mine is a Redding comp, bushing FL.

 

[Dgd6mm]

It's a. 223 Remington. I use a FL sizing die for my FTR .223 Remington rifle. I have several with ISSF chambers. A new one I just broke in the other day and I'm thinking I may try a small base die set on. On the accuracy part, my buddy uses nothing but SB die for his .223's across the board and his accuracy is as good as mine. Out to distance 800 yards banging steel. 1 shot 1 kill 2 weeks ago in Wyoming on a 510 yard Prarie Dog for him.

 

[OldManTA]

Just one person's opinion; if you are going to shoot 223 Rem in FTR (or Palma) you are going to be running that cartridge close to the limits (or more!) of the brass. You don't want to size it anymore than necessary for the loaded rounds to work properly in your rifle. As Mr. Dietrich advised, use a die that most closely fits your chamber AND, I will add, pay very close attention to headspace sizing. I had an LC case come out in two pieces and then discovered nine more with circumferential cracks. I thought I was minimally setting the shoulders back--Obviously, I wasn't! I was using a load commonly discussed in these pages.
I have been able to maintain X-ring elevation throughout a Palma match with the Berger 85.5 but that comes at a price so be very careful and pay attention to details. Good luck
Tom Alves

 

[Ned Ludd]

IMO - use a small base die only if the fired brass indicates it is necessary. I've always used Redding Type S dies with my .223 F-TR rifles and even though brass life is poor because of the pressures generated with the loads I typically run, I've never found any need to use a small base die due to clickers or other problems chambering/extracting loaded rounds. As long as the chamber/reamer specs are appropriate, I'm not aware of any good way to know whether the small base die will be beneficial until you have fired brass in hand to measure, or fire-formed, prepped brass to load and chamber. You can always add in the use of a small base die later if you encounter such problems in fire-formed brass, but starting out with one when you don't yet know whether it will be necessary risks over-working the brass if the small base die isn't needed.

 

[762willdo]

Small base dies have their purpose……..this is not one of them.

 

[Kings X]

My accuracy suffers when I use a full length bushing die over just a Wilson neck die. A VERY LITTLE BIT.
But I get less gun movement during chambering the round. Smooth bolt - stays on my target.
I do use a small base die that bumps the shoulder back in my AR to aid in chambering.
Whidden makes a super gauge to measure shoulder movement. It has a screw on cap that has .001 marks. Put a fired case in it and record number. Rezise until desired set back.

 

[Longtrain]

I used one for a while in an AR XTC rifle. It insured no FTF’s. For my bolt gun, I just use a regular Redding die, works just fine.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

If you are going to use new brass FL dies are good. However if you are going to use range brass witch is mostly fired from AR type rifles, small base dies will be needed as the AR rifles do not seat the case as deeply in the chamber as a bolt action rifle.

 

[Gater]

I use a Forster neck sizing die for .223 bolt gun I use Norma brass I lost count on the number of loadings and I do not anneal any of it.

 

[PracticalTactical]

The only time I ever use a small base die is when initially resizing Lake City or IVI brass for the first time.

After that, I fire for the first time in my rifle with a reduced load just to blow the case out to my chamber.

After that, I just give the case the slightest possible shoulder bump after each firing and belly up to my full competition load.

Think of case sizing for competition this way.... The more clearance there is between the case and the chamber, the more energy is lost to blow the case out to the chamber side wall. That energy loss degrades velocity, but also creates one more variable that contributes to your ES. You want it snug, but not tight.

It's up to you if you want to anneal. I always anneal brass when I first get Lake City or IVI, but after that, I should anneal on a regular basis, but will admit that I often don't. I have never found that annealing helps stabilize neck tension, but that's because of how I process brass.

For FTR, just make sure you have a ton of freebore so you can seat those heavies long. My OAL with 88s is close to 2.700"

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I use a standard, non bushing Redding set and a 224 mandrel to set neck tension. My ADI brass has gone through at least 5 reloads. The barrel was chambered by Truflite. 75g A-Max and Varget (ADI2208) Federal Gold primers. No resizing issues, no clickers.

 

[1911mag]

My chambers are all cut with a PTG ISSF reamer, never needed small base dies. I think mine is a Redding comp, bushing FL.

Same
ISSF reamer for heavies and Redding FL bushing die

 

[searcher]

The small base dies really only serve two purposes - in general. First is to take brass down to size that has been previously fired in a larger chamber and the second is to take brass down that has been punished from "overloading".

So - if you are using new brass and not pushing it to extreme pressures - you should not need short base dies unless you have an undersized chamber.

To otherwise use short base dies as part of your brass preparation will shorten the life of your brass. As you know - you do want your brass to closely fill the chamber. Short base dies defeat that purpose if you have a normal chamber.

Your rifle will tell you if you truly need that die, as you will have chambering issues if you truly need it. If those issues are not present - I'd avoid the short base die.