223 VS 224 Valkyrie

[spudgun]

I just finished a AR build in 224 Valkyrie.

Loaded up some bullets and went to the range.

Although my first 20 rounds were impressive at 100 yds I got to thinking about my 223 builds.

I don't want to start a war here but interested to what makes it better than the .223 rem.

The .223 case has slightly larger volume than the Valkyrie. I can load the same bullet weight and size in both cases, use the same powder and primers.

So with all variables the same with both cartridges (except the case volume) what's the big deal with the Valkyrie?

 

[cmillard]

I think it offers the ability to shoot heavier bullets Out of the magazine vs single load. The .223 has more volume????

 

[243winxb]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/5/21/tested-inside-the-224-valkyrie/
A good read, but i would not run out to get one, if already owned a 223 Rem.

 

[ballisticxlr]

Better? Nothing. It's not really in the same class as a .223rem. .223rem you might get 25 grains of powder in. .224V you're kissing 30 grains on the chin. Might think of them as an AR-15 capable .22BR.

 

[spudgun]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/5/21/tested-inside-the-224-valkyrie/
A good read, but i would not run out to get one, if already owned a 223 Rem.

Too late. Already rebareld one of my AR's to 224 Valk.

I will say that the 75 gr Hornady match really likes 2600 + FPS.

Going to push it a little more to see if I can get sub 1MOA at 100 yds.

The next test will be the 600 yd range. My Colt H bar and 55 gr bullets really fell off 400 yds.

Thanks for the link.

 

[spudgun]

I think it offers the ability to shoot heavier bullets Out of the magazine vs single load. The .223 has more volume????

Well I filled each case with water and then measured the water. I found this in my test:

Valk = 30.1gr of water
223 = 32.0 gr of water

Did i miss something?

 

[chkunz]

For what application is there an advantage to shooting heavier bullets out of a magazine? I am not being critical, just wondering where this would be an advantage.

 

[DukeDuke]

I thought long and hard, 224V or stay with the 223. The 224V route meant new dies, new priming tool shell holder, new brass and most importantly a new gun or upper.
Watched a bunch of videos and said, OK, money is not an issue, even got some left for a Simmons scope! My wife said OK too!!! The only "but" was me being a huge fan of the 223.
I decided to play a little more with heavy 85, 88 and 90 gr bullets seated out long in my 223 to be certain the 224V is worth it. The results were well in favor of the 223. At 2.50 col I got velocities
of 2670 fps out of a 18" 1 in 7" twist ar barrel, accuracy was stellar out to 800 yards.

 

[spudgun]

I thought long and hard, 224V or stay with the 223. The 224V route meant new dies, new priming tool shell holder, new brass and most importantly a new gun or upper.
Watched a bunch of videos and said, OK, money is not an issue, even got some left for a Simmons scope! My wife said OK too!!! The only "but" was me being a huge fan of the 223.
I decided to play a little more with heavy 85, 88 and 90 gr bullets seated out long in my 223 to be certain the 224V is worth it. The results were well in favor of the 223. At 2.50 col I got velocities
of 2670 fps out of a 18" 1 in 7" twist ar barrel, accuracy was stellar out to 800 yards.

Nice, What gun or barrel you using?
Powder and grains please.

I still have a Springfield Saint that I haven't touched yet. 1:8 twist.

For what it's worth. The change over to Valk was $150.00 for barrel and BCG.

PSA, had their 20" barrel and BCG on sale. One of the guys I shoot with bought the PSA complete upper and was hitting 9" steel at 600 yds.

Your right, new brass and dies set me back $80.00, but I needed a new challenge.

Today I was testing 75gr, Hornady match and was getting sub 1" MOA at 100 yds.

 

[Knotwild]

I wish I knew where PSA acquired there barrels. I have a 9 twist stainless 5.56 of theirs I bought as a complete upper that shoots really nice. But I have a hard time making myself buy an un-named barrel. $150 for a barrel and bolt carrier group is scary cheap.

 

[spudgun]

I wish I knew where PSA acquired there barrels. I have a 9 twist stainless 5.56 of theirs I bought as a complete upper that shoots really nice. But I have a hard time making myself buy an un-named barrel. $150 for a barrel and bolt carrier group is scary cheap.

Last year PSA changed from there brand barrels (which were crappy) to FN. The barrel is not marked FN, but it shoots 100% better than a barrel I got from them 2 yrs ago.

I too was not sure, but if not for a guy that I shoot competition with bought their complete upper and is having good luck with it. It is a 1:6.5 twist

They had them reduced from $249 to $149. I don't know if the sale is still on.

 

[Ned Ludd]

As was mentioned by cmillard, the .223 Rem cannot be loaded optimally with 80+ gr bullets at mag length. If you really want to take advantage of heavy bullets in the .223 Rem case, they need to be loaded long and single fed. The other potential advantage of the Valkyrie case is that you have a bit more metal in the casehead region around a small rifle primer pocket. Running .223 Rem loads with 80+ gr bullets has a tendency to wipe out the primer fairly quickly. Analogous to the difference between .308 Win small rifle primer (Palma) and large rifle primer brass, the Valkyrie case should withstand these higher pressure loads a little better than the .223 Rem case.

 

[Knotwild]

Last year PSA changed from there brand barrels (which were crappy) to FN. The barrel is not marked FN, but it shoots 100% better than a barrel I got from them 2 yrs ago.

They must be sourcing good barrels from somewhere, but I doubt it is FN. FN's barrels are cold hammer forged and an individual FN 5.56 barrel at Brownells sells for $299. They also don't sell a Valkyrie.

Sorry, I am not trying to start a discussion on the barrel. It's just that I doubt PSA's claims sometimes. I imagine they use the best barrel they can buy to sell at the price point they set.

 

[DukeDuke]

I'm loading 25.0 of 2000MR in LC brass.

 

[Travis Roberts]

Too late. Already rebareld one of my AR's to 224 Valk.

I will say that the 75 gr Hornady match really likes 2600 + FPS.

Going to push it a little more to see if I can get sub 1MOA at 100 yds.

The next test will be the 600 yd range. My Colt H bar and 55 gr bullets really fell off 400 yds.

Thanks for the link.

I think you should be upping your charge or changing powders. I get 2750 out of a 16” WOA 223 Wylde barrel with the factory Magtech 77 SMK load. I have a buddy with a 224 Val upper and his 20” barrel was shooting the factory federal 75 FMJ at 2850ish and it shoots them under MOA. I think my barrel is a touch fast and his is a touch slow. Personally I wouldn’t be wasting time on a 75 grain charge under 2800 FPS and would like to see it even faster. And like mentioned before the Valkyrie shines with the ability to shoot heavies. If I’m handloading I’d personally be trying some 88-95 grain bullets.

 

[spudgun]

I think you should be upping your charge or changing powders. I get 2750 out of a 16” WOA 223 Wylde barrel with the factory Magtech 77 SMK load. I have a buddy with a 224 Val upper and his 20” barrel was shooting the factory federal 75 FMJ at 2850ish and it shoots them under MOA. I think my barrel is a touch fast and his is a touch slow. Personally I wouldn’t be wasting time on a 75 grain charge under 2800 FPS and would like to see it even faster. And like mentioned before the Valkyrie shines with the ability to shoot heavies. If I’m handloading I’d personally be trying some 88-95 grain bullets.

i am working up the loads. This was my first 15 rounds through the new barrel. Just loaded up some more with .2 gr increments. Rain all week here so I hope to get some range time between storms.

 

[Tommie]

Still trying to wrap my head around the .223 have a greater powder capacity than the Valk.

 

[Travis Roberts]

Still trying to wrap my head around the .223 have a greater powder capacity than the Valk.

It doesn’t lol

i am working up the loads. This was my first 15 rounds through the new barrel. Just loaded up some more with .2 gr increments. Rain all week here so I hope to get some range time between storms.

Yea I’d go right to max or just under in a book and start from there. Gotta bump them numbers up lol!

 

[Oso]

224 Valkyrie is a One Trick Pony for shooters trying to max their AR15's performance at 1000 yards by using heaviest bullet that will fit inside the magazine. If you want to pursue accuracy and distance, then the easiest solution is get rid of the magazine length restriction by either moving to an AR10 or a Bolt Gun. There is a world of difference between a factory barrel and a custom barrel. This is especially true for Ar15/Ar10 where a $400 barrel is considered premium, and amongst Bolt rifles it is the price of a barrel blank. If you are considering a 224 Valkyrie for precision shooting then you will also need to upgrade your barrel. Now you are looking at +$700 for something that can shoot 1/2" groups under ideal conditions. If you want to push the AR15 envelope...then barrel is critical. It reminds me of when I was a kid and we would borrow my friend's mom's station wagon and try to race other cars... we were kids and any car was a "CAR"...LOL! Short of getting this pregnant with a build you are better off with a 223. Here is a comparison of a premium AR10 barrel (JP Enterprises Supermatch) versus a custom barrel (Kreiger) that highlights the difference in performance

(turn off the sound...soundtrack is terrible)

Johnny's Reloading Bench on YouTube did a series on the 224 Valkyrie

I believe that the 224 Valkyrie lacks the versatility that you have with .223 Remington. The 223 case capacity can be easily increased by going to 223 Ackley Improved, which will also function reliably in an AR15. Additionally, a bolt rifle doesn't have the magazine length limitation, except maybe a mini-mauser action size. THe chamber in a bolt gun can be throated long, which allows the bullet to be seated long (only in the neck) freeing up the entire case body to be filled with powder. If you want something heavier than a .223, but still fitting inside the AR15 then there are a few solid performers highlighted on http://6mmar.com/

 

[spudgun]

224 Valkyrie is a One Trick Pony for shooters trying to max their AR15's performance at 1000 yards by using heaviest bullet that will fit inside the magazine. If you want to pursue accuracy and distance, then the easiest solution is get rid of the magazine length restriction by either moving to an AR10 or a Bolt Gun. There is a world of difference between a factory barrel and a custom barrel. This is especially true for Ar15/Ar10 where a $400 barrel is considered premium, and amongst Bolt rifles it is the price of a barrel blank. If you are considering a 224 Valkyrie for precision shooting then you will also need to upgrade your barrel. Now you are looking at +$700 for something that can shoot 1/2" groups under ideal conditions. If you want to push the AR15 envelope...then barrel is critical. It reminds me of when I was a kid and we would borrow my friend's mom's station wagon and try to race other cars... we were kids and any car was a "CAR"...LOL! Short of getting this pregnant with a build you are better off with a 223. Here is a comparison of a premium AR10 barrel (JP Enterprises Supermatch) versus a custom barrel (Kreiger) that highlights the difference in performance

(turn off the sound...soundtrack is terrible)

Johnny's Reloading Bench on YouTube did a series on the 224 Valkyrie

I believe that the 224 Valkyrie lacks the versatility that you have with .223 Remington. The 223 case capacity can be easily increased by going to 223 Ackley Improved, which will also function reliably in an AR15. Additionally, a bolt rifle doesn't have the magazine length limitation, except maybe a mini-mauser action size. THe chamber in a bolt gun can be throated long, which allows the bullet to be seated long (only in the neck) freeing up the entire case body to be filled with powder. If you want something heavier than a .223, but still fitting inside the AR15 then there are a few solid performers highlighted on http://6mmar.com/

I agree with you that the barrel is the key. A bolt rifle over a AR platform is also desirable. I do shoot 600 yds with a Savage 6.5 CM bolt gun and have tried the AR10 platform for long range and it just didn't cut it.

My trying the Valk was because I can and I have several AR's in different calibers, sooo why not the Valk. Not looking for 1/2 MOA at 600 yds just hitting steel plates for fun.

Looks like a sunny day here so off to the range I go.