223 Seating Issues

[cowboyarcher]

Hi All,

I am having some troubles lately loading some 223 ammo. I am trying to load 60 gr Hornady HP flat base bullets into chamferred mixed commercial cases. What appears to be happening is the the seater is catching the HP and attempts to seat the bullet at an angle? It is causing a deformation of the point of the bullet and bulging the neck and seating the bullets at an angle.

I am using a standard RCBS die set in a Dillon 550b. I just ran 200 60 gr SP's (again, flat base) through it at the same setting so I am really confused as to what is causing the issue.

Any ideas? Pic are as good as I can get with my phone, will try to get better photos later this afternoon/evening. . .

Thanks all and God bless you!

Adam

 

[mac86951]

I had this happen once on my RCBS single stage when the case head had a burr in the extraction groove, meaning the case would not position fully under the seating die. Do you have a single stage press to check the seating die there? In my case it was an individual shell, but possibly there is a misalignment with ram/shell-holder/seating die?

Lets see what others chime in with too.

-Mac

 

[cowboyarcher]

It happened on about 4 cases so I stopped there, and I can swap to a single stage and check that, but not for a day or two. . .

 

[mac86951]

Look to see if the case is slipping in the shell-holder, or if the problem is always with one shell-holder (not sure of Dillon's full workings). The shell-holders are usually self-aligning so as long as the case slides freely in the shell-holder (and seats well).

If you have some that are good and some that aren't I'd think it isn't the seater, but maybe next I'd look at brass and possible brass burrs in/on case neck from chamfer/trimming.

Is your brass already sized, or are you sizing it as you are loading?
-Mac

 

[cowboyarcher]

It was 4 cases in a row rather than 4 here and there.

I am sizing at station 1, charging at station 2 and seating at station 3. . .

I'm not sure the Dillon would allow case mis-allignment as it has a button that seats the case back into the shell plate (holder).

 

[Topstrap]

Any chance a bit of powder or dirt is gotten in or under the shell plate holding the case out a bit?

Topstrap

 

[jonbearman]

Are you sure the seating die isnt screwed in too far causing it to start crimping before the bullet is seated all the way which would be caused by a few cases being just long enough to start the crimp and crushing the case the further in you go.It happened to me and I back the die out to alleviate the problem and it has never happened with any bullet since.

 

[cowboyarcher]

Depriming 223 brass I have noticed a bunch of orange/copper colored powder on the shell plate, I'll check to make sure things are moving freely there.

I'll check the height of the seating die also. I'm just confused why the problem happen only when changing bullets and slightly adjusting the seating depth for COAL requirements. Nothing else was changed from the lot of SP's I just finished up. . .

But the problems do seem like they may be related to a premature crimp. I intentionally set up the die not to crimp as I crimp at station 4, but it still maybe too low.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

Looks like the bullet is hanging the case mouth and tipping...
Try sizing the neck 1 or 2 thou less..or...Get a powder drop tube with a mouth expander..LT

 

[cowboyarcher]

Looks like the bullet is hanging the case mouth and tipping...
Try sizing the neck 1 or 2 thou less..or...Get a powder drop tube with a mouth expander..LT

How do I adjust the amount of neck sizing?

 

[Lapua40X]

There is a chance, I believe, that your chamfer is too steep, allowing the bullet to dance around in that space as the charged case is pushed into the seating die.
I might suggest starting from the beginning and cleaning the die, shell holder and shell holder seat on the ram then reassembling the set up with the seater die installed only as deep as necessary with respect to the length of the ram.
Full length resize the brass and check each case for burrs or other obstructions in the neck. Also be certain the cases are clean and that the necks are free of sizing lubricant that night cause a gran of powder to hang up there during the charging cycle
If you're full length resizing, a case neck sizing die to open the case necks just a tad after full length resizing might also be worth a try.

 

[Taildrag15X]

Looks like the bullet is hanging the case mouth and tipping...
Try sizing the neck 1 or 2 thou less..or...Get a powder drop tube with a mouth expander..LT

How do I adjust the amount of neck sizing?

Use a larger sizer ball, I have some sets of Forster custom ground ones .2225-.2250, .2415-.2440,.3025-.3120

 

[cowboyarcher]

There is a chance, I believe, that your chamfer is too steep, allowing the bullet to dance around in that space as the charged case is pushed into the seating die.
I might suggest starting from the beginning and cleaning the die, shell holder and shell holder seat on the ram then reassembling the set up with the seater die installed only as deep as necessary with respect to the length of the ram.
Full length resize the brass and check each case for burrs or other obstructions in the neck. Also be certain the cases are clean and that the necks are free of sizing lubricant that night cause a gran of powder to hang up there during the charging cycle
If you're full length resizing, a case neck sizing die to open the case necks just a tad after full length resizing might also be worth a try.

I do have to 'ride' the bullet with 2 fingers into the seating die on the upstroke of the ram. Should be bullet sit there on it's own?

 

[Lapua40X]

I do have to 'ride' the bullet with 2 fingers into the seating die on the upstroke of the ram. Should be bullet sit there on it's own?

When you have to hold the bullet in place to keep it straight when entering the seating die it has a lot of time (in reloading terms) to move between the time your release it and entering the seating space. Yep, the bullet should rest in place without you having to hold in in the neck when entering the seating die.

 

[cowboyarcher]

When you have to hold the bullet in place to keep it straight when entering the seating die it has a lot of time (in reloading terms) to move between the time your release it and entering the seating space. Yep, the bullet should rest in place without you having to hold in in the neck when entering the seating die.

Seems like I may have an issue in my sizing die also then?

 

[gotcha]

ALWAYS best to use BT bullets when possible in a Dillon. I'd agree that sized necks look pretty skinny. Have you chkd. O.D. of fired vs. sized vs. bullet seated? Also, is tip of bullet making contact w/ seater plug rather than ogive contacting seater. The brass build up you're seeing on the plate is normal for a Dillon & caused by the skidding motion of the case in the rotating shell holder.

 

[mac86951]

Try cleaning the sizers/seaters/shell-holders and put a good chamfer on the cases even before sizing. That should help guide the flat-base bullet stay in place, and help in not catching on seating.

-Mac

 

[cowboyarcher]

Well I made it out this afternoon and got to work with things a little more.

First I reset the seater die to make sure it was not crimping the cases. Then I removed the seater plug from the die and saw that it had a fairly thick lip around the edge, so I took my chamfer tool to it to make the bullet transition into the plug as gentle as possible. I made sure to chamfer the cases as smoothly and consistently as I could.

From there I decided to load single cases at a time in order to get a feel for what was going on in the sizing die. I could feel the bullets start to seat crooked as before, but this time the seating plug sheared off a small portion of the HP and the bullet seated as normal.

I went ahead and loaded to end of my powder supplies as these were mostly just plinking rounds, and i was almost out of powder. . .

Given that, does it still sounds like I need a new seating, and perhaps sizing die? Which set would you recommend for FB bullets? I have a bunch left and FB's are fairly common in the .224 bullets so it makes sence to get something that will work better. . .

 

[mac86951]

If you need a new sizing die, go for an S-type where you can change the bushing for various sizes. Seating dies, go with any of the competition dies, I like RCBS, Forster, Hornady, Lee make good ones too. Look for something compatible with the VLDs which have a longer meplat to ogive distance (nose to hip?) That should eliminate the possibility you are seating off the nose and not the ogive.


-Mac

 

[gotcha]

Trying to seat flat based rifle bullets in a Dillon is problematic. You have limited physical control in terms of keeping a bullet vertical during seating as compared to a single stage press. Also other dies in the press are at various stages of operation & causing vibrations which cause the bullet to be knocked off vertical prior to entering seater plug. I'd suggest you call Dillon. I use their .223 seater in both Dillon & Rock chucker w/ good result. Haven't attempted 62 grainers in Dillon though. Dillon techs more likely to understand your problem & advise remedy....... Also, creating a more acute angle in your chamfer may allow for something close to an interference fit allowing you to wedge bullet in case neck prior to seating stroke. This might eliminate dinged tips.