223 Remington: What's Wrong With It?

[Phil3]

I now have two centerfire rifles, one an AR in 223 and the other a Howa bolt action in 223. I reload for both, and am after best accuracy. I know the round is not used where top accuracy is desired, so wondered just what is not so good about the 223? Low bullet coefficient, poor ballistics, jack of all trades, but master of none, or...? Or other rounds that simply outdo it everywhere?

As a side note, I will be using other rounds in other rifles in the future (6mmbr for sure, maybe 6.5 x 47), so not wedded to the 223.

Phil

 

[fdshuster]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

Phil3: I find the 223 Remington to be one of the most accurate factory cartridges. My Compass Lake upper with a Krieger 1-7.8 twist will shoot 1/2 moa on a good day, 3/4 to 1 if I'm not doing my part.

As will my Savage mdl. 10 with a Hart 1-8 twist.

So here I'm talking about rifles with custom hand-lapped barrels, and my ammo loaded with Varget and the 55 gr. V-Max for close distances and the 80 gr. Sierra MatchKings for everything out to 600 yards.

I do believe in custom barrels and bullets that are either match, like the SMK's or a good hunting bullet that has proven itself to be accurate, like the 50 & 55 gr. Hornady V-Max.

Quality barrel + quality bullets = very tiny groups. Several are being used in our local hunter benchrest for score match's, and they do very well frequently taking home the money in factory class.

 

[MDLUCKY]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

Or other rounds that simply outdo it everywhere?

I think that has a lot to do with it. For example, anything you can do with a .223 you can do a little bit faster and a little bit flatter (generally speaking) with a .22-250.. But my .223 is a tack driver and does anything I need out to about 400 yards.

Plus, with the insane component scarcity it is sometimes easier to keep rounds that all use large rifle primers, for example…


That said – the one thing no other cartridge can do FOR ME is provide once fired brass so cheaply.. I just pick up every .223 shell I shoot out of my AR platform guns and reload it for my .223 bolt gun. It’s a practically endless supply with how fast you can go through the rounds having fun.

 

[GSPV]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

It's a *danged* fine cartridge. Might come up a tad short in some paper games, but all-around it's a wonderful cartridge.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

There are plenty of folks here with WAY more experience shooting 223 at all ranges than I have...but roll a fast twist barrel with 80gr bullets and keeps up with or beats a 308 shooting 168/175s at any range.

 

[flatlander]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

Dittos to the positive comments on the 223's accuracy. I've got three very accurate 223 bolt rifles w/custom bbls, along with several AR15s with Kriegers that are also tackdrivers. Call it "the little cartridge that could" - mine all shoot great with 80s & 90s out to 1000yds. Is there another cartridge as efficient & accurate that has such low recoil and is as easy to load for? Doubt it.

I love shooting my other rifles in 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, & 308, but give the little 223 its due - with the huge selection of bullets available (well, at least they USED to be available), it's one versatile cartridge.

 

[jonbearman]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

The .223 is the new .222,it is accuarate in most factory rifles and way more accurate in custom barreled guns. You wont regret having tons of fun in a bolt gun.Most howa's shoot really well so dont worry about brand.Let us know how the new howa shoots.

 

[Phil3]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

It is nice to hear these comments. Sometimes it seems like the 223 is last year's news, or something kicked to the curb because it is old, uncool, just a military round, inadequate or lacking in some respect. Still, I have to surmise that the 223, while it does nothing badly, it is not the king of anything. The comment that some cartridges can perform better is true, and while a 22-250 may be faster and flatter, how kind is to barrels? Seems like every round has its pros and cons.

For someone like me, a newbie, I wanted something I could hone my shooting skills on, not develop a flinch due to recoil, was forgiving to reload for, was cheaper to load, didn't eat barrels, and could perform well enough to test my ability to shoot and reload. At my distances of 100 and 200 yards, it would seem the 223 can easily meet all the requirements. As a plus, the 223 is a good intro round for those new to firearms. I am not one of those that gets delight out of scaring someone with a punch to the shoulder from something like a 300 WinMag. I like it more with the smile on their face from hitting the target.

The only downside is why on earth would I need a 6mmBR, much less something like a 6.5 x 47 (which I want)? I guess the answer is, "I don't, I just want them". Don't even ask me to explain why I want a 338 Lapua Magnum... I fired two shots and had to have one.

Phil

 

[Outrider27]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

The only downside is why on earth would I need a 6mmBR, much less something like a 6.5 x 47 (which I want)? I guess the answer is, "I don't, I just want them". Don't even ask me to explain why I want a 338 Lapua Magnum... I fired two shots and had to have one.

Phil

I'm past retirement age and am now enjoying the childhood college, a war and working for a living interrupted and I understand exactly where that feeling comes from, which is whey I have a 6.5 Grendle (AR), .338 Lapua mag and a spanking new 6.5 Creedmore. I won't have a 6BR simply because I scratched that itch awhile back and I have just as much fun with my 7BR, though for different uses.

Don't get too caught up in .223 accuracy discussions without making the distinction between ARs and bolt guns. While there are ARs out there that consistently shoot great groups, in general the bolt guns will shoot tighter groups and comparing AR/Mini 14 accuracy to bolt gun accuracy is somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison. Even when my .223 AR is wearing the upper with the match grade Lilja barrel, it won't shoot quite as tight as my bull barreled 700 bolt gun. Half of the fun, now that you're handloading, is finding what each one likes. A well built .223 bolt gun will hang with any .22 centerfire with regards to accuracy, and you could always try the .223/35 or .223 AI if you want to try something different on the same case. And making an AR shoot small groups is a hoot, it's just a little more challanging.

Don't sweat the small stuff, just keep tinkering and learning. You'll have a ball, and get plenty of assistance and encouragement along the way from other shooters on here.

 

[Kermit in Va.]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

223...Got to love it !!!
Uncle Sam must think it pretty good, been around for awhile.
I know I'm going to get flac over that last commet but I love the cal. and it worked for me for 20 some years.
Hard little round to complain about.
Shoot it have enjoy ...


Kermit

 

[Dgd6mm]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?


I've got one in the making for Mid-Range.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Re: 223 Remington: Whats Wrong With It?

Both of my 223's are true barrels of fun to shoot. Shot my new one a week ago Monday and knocked down a clean with 9. I am very pleased with them!

 

[BigHorn WBY]

Hey Phil, no flies on a .223.
I have had many bolt rifles in it, all where fine shooters, even older cheapy Mini Mark X and S&W 1500's. Only thing that wasn't was a very well worn Mini-14.

We have shot 10's of thousands on Ultramax 52gr HP. loaded from little 35's up to as heavy as the twist would handle. A Tikka 1-7'' shot 75gr AMAX to moa at 1000. Still have a ancient 595 "Seal" rifle that is about 5000rds down the pipe and is a 1/2moa with someone besides me on the trigger.

Would be hard to call your battery of arms complete without one in the stable.

 

[Lapua40X]

Nothing!! Mine shoots so good it makes me look like an accomplished marksman.

 

[rayjay]

I don't believe there are inherently inaccurate cartridges. I DO believe there are lots of crappy bbls and crappy chambering jobs and crappy crowns and crappy bedding jobs and crappy scopes and crappy reloading processes and crappy bullets and crappy load development processes and etc etc etc.

People say things like they don't want to wear out their bbl 'prematurely' [ meaning ever ] when the best thing they could do is have the gun rebbled by a well known 'smith' and using a top flight bbl. The break in shots would probably produce the best groups they've ever fired.

Edit to add -- The most critical piece of shooting equipment for shooting tiny groups is windflags but I would be willing to bet that only a small percentage of people that don't shoot in matches but whose main aim of shooting is accuracy don't even have the most elementary sort of wind indicator.

Example - As I was cleaning my gun after the club's June RF BR match there was a member showed up with an Eliseo tube gun to do some load testing - both accuracy and chrono. He sets up his target at the 200 yard berm and starts shooting. No flags AND he is sitting at a bench that most likely has NEVER won a match in our club's CF BR matches since I joined the club in 2007. The wind patterns at this bench are diabolical for a variety of reasons.

I know from watching flags for years that what you feel at the bench has ZERO bearing on the winds down range no matter what bench you are sitting at.

What's this guy learning about the mechanical accuracy of his rifle? Nothing.

 

[SmokinJoe]

If you had to pick just one for fun, paper & varmints of various types, you'd be hard pressed to beat the 223.

 

[lpreddick]

my les baer custom varmint .223 will shoot 1/4 in. routinely with lapua brass and custom bullets and is a ghogs nightmare. one nice thing about the .223 is that it can be promoted to a .223 ackley. this modification is possibly the most improved of the various ackleys in that the velocity gain with a 52 gr bullet is right at the .22-.250 with a lot less powder and subsequent barrel wear. the .223s are the guns i use to introduce new shooters to the hobby/sport and they always want to shoot more.

 

[CatShooter]

my les baer custom varmint .223 will shoot 1/4 in. routinely with lapua brass and custom bullets and is a ghogs nightmare. one nice thing about the .223 is that it can be promoted to a .223 ackley. this modification is possibly the most improved of the various ackleys in that the velocity gain with a 52 gr bullet is right at the .22-.250 with a lot less powder and subsequent barrel wear. the .223s are the guns i use to introduce new shooters to the hobby/sport and they always want to shoot more.

The 223 AI holds about a grain and a half more then the straight 223 - how do you get to a 22-250 with 1.5 grains more powder.

I have owned 223s, 223 AIs, and 22-250s... none of my 223 AIs showed more than 100 fps gain over the straight case... and my current 22-250 is 500 fps faster than a straight 223 with the same barrel length.

There are no free lunches (or magic cases) - velocity is purely a result of case volume and bullet weight (all other things being equal).

You need a lot more than 1.5 grains to get 500 fps gain. (Or you gotta pull the trigger really really hard )

 

[flatlander]

Dittos, CatShooter. I bought a 223 AI reamer for two reasons - I was tired of trimming brass (even with a Giraud), and I wanted the AI for shooting 90gr bullets, where even a little more velocity would be helpful. The results I got made the project worthwhile IMHO, even though I'm not getting enough more velocity out of 80s or 90s to make much difference.

There is the 'cool factor' to consider - that little AI case just looks 'cool'.

 

[NateHaler]

There's nothing wrong with the .223, and much that is laudable. Very accurate, extremely long bore life (10k rounds plus), inexpensive, and a huge variety of reloading components and data readily available.

I think everybody should own a .22lr and a .223, before they try other chamberings. IMO, these are both "must haves".