223 Remington - New Accuracy Powders

[Longtrain]

I am not new to loading and competitive shooting, but most of my 223 Remington loads dealt with XTC loadings. I recently had one of my 223's, a Tikka 595, re-barreled with a 28" Hart 1:8, and a pretty tight chamber, .250 neck.

So far it shoots, 77 Noslers and 80 SMK's well using Varget and I don't have any real complaints, but I know that there are some new powders and am wondering if any of them show a real accuracy gain with heavy bullets, over Varget or RE-15? I have been using Wolf SRM primers and WW brass at this point also.

I use this rifle to shoot F-T/R either at 300 or 600 yards, so, better then 1/2 MOA is the goal.

Any direction is appreciated.

Thanks

Tony

 

[DukeDuke]

I've had good results with Power-Pro 2000-MR.

 

[Brandon_M]

I have good luck with n-140 and 75 vld bergers out of my 223 ackley.

 

[SpencerC]

My new .223 30" Shilen select match with .252 neck shoots the 80gn SMK's and the 90gn Berger VLD's VERY well behind a full case of N150. This powder burns extremely clean as well, I have no problem paying the extra for VV powder now that I know it works so well.

 

[Laurie]

My new .223 30" Shilen select match with .252 neck shoots the 80gn SMK's and the 90gn Berger VLD's VERY well behind a full case of N150. [SpencerC]

Have you used it in hot weather yet? N150 can give excellent results with 80s/90s in the cartridge, but has a reputation for (a) pressure spiking suddenly with an extra 0.2gn past a certain point, and (b) being temperature sensitive. As a result, I keep my N150 / 90gn loads on the modest side and stick to VarGet for my long-range match loads.

Jerry Tierney had some worrying experiences with N150 in his 223 heavy bullet load testing at Sacramento a winter or two back and dropped it like the proverbial hot potato. I haven't suffered this but treat this powder with some caution as a result. N140 / N540 peaked suddenly and at too low MVs for me with 90s, and although quite usable with 77s / 80s are inferior to VarGet / Re15 in my opinion.

Tony, you might want to try H4895 with the 77s. I got outstanding results with Berger, Sierra and Lapua 77s with this powder, and that was despite these bullets being amongst the least powder sensitive I've ever tried.- in any calibre.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[SpencerC]

Since my throat isn't as long in this barrel, my "full case" of N150 isn't as full as last year. I'm using a modest load of 23.5gn of N150 and getting 2710fps, very tight groups, an ES of 14 and an SD of 4.3fps. I'm more than happy with that for mid-range. I was able to hit the other node at 24.4gn but it was starting to get hot and I don't need the extra speed all the time or the extra wear on brass.

I will keep an eye on it, though I don't think it will be a problem with light loads. I know Jerry was really pushing them in some of his tests to get results at 1000. Since I'm running a little lighter for 600, hopefully it will remain stable.

 

[Laurie]

Since my throat isn't as long in this barrel, my "full case" of N150 isn't as full as last year. I'm using a modest load of 23.5gn of N150 and getting 2710fps, very tight groups, an ES of 14 and an SD of 4.3fps. I'm more than happy with that for mid-range. I was able to hit the other node at 24.4gn but it was starting to get hot and I don't need the extra speed all the time or the extra wear on brass.

2,710 and the 90gn VLD IS a nice 600yd load. I get good results a little further up at around 2,750 fps with N150 in my extreme-throated rifle and would consider that for shorter range matches especially as we get the powder more cheaply here than any of the American brands.

Ironically, for reasons that would take too long to explain, I'm using my .308 Barnard / Eliseo tubegun in up to 600yd club matches and the .223 almost entirely for 800-1,100yd national and international long-range matches, so VarGet it remains. We have periodic supply shortages here and I have to buy half a dozen tins at great expense every time it's available.

Anyway, good luck with the 90 / N250 load.

Laurie

 

[flatlander]

I pretty well 'played the field' in the '90s when I got my first CLE SR upper - used TAC, N135, N140, Varget, & RL15 with S69, 77, & 80MKs for XC matches. I didn't care for shooting compressed loads with N140 & Varget, but didn't want to settle for the velocities to be had with lighter loads. I had a small amount of a '93 lot of RL15 that worked well, and so purchased a couple of 5lb jugs of fresh stuff in '02.

That lot of RL15 turned out to be not only slower than the older one, but also less dense, which put me right back where I'd been with N140 & Varget, only with a powder that's more temp sensitive than Varget. Finally bit the bullet and invested in several 2lb jugs of N540, which gave me the velocity & accuracy I was after.

However, I could've stayed with TAC, saved a considerable chunk of change, had an easier time loading, and gotten pretty close to the same results I had with N540. It's not as temp sensitive as the older ball powders (BL-c2 & W748 for example), yet meters so well that you'd have to be a bit anal to feel the need to weigh charges.

Nowadays, I shoot 223 bolt rifles for fun and a 24" Krieger AR15 for tactical matches. Loading mostly IMR8208, H4895, and N550(only with Berger & JLK 90s), and am pretty satisfied with all three powders (aside from the very high price of N550). I do see some new powders advertised, (eg - Alliant's AR-COMP) and wonder if any of them would have an advantage over what I'm using, but accuacy with the three above numbers has been awfully good, and time to test is more precious than a small improvement, so.....

 

[Laurie]

Dennis,

how temperature-sensitive is BL-C(2) / W748? (I ask as I'm trying it shortly as one of two ball powders, the other being H414 / W760, in Lapua small-primer Lapua 'Palma' brass with CCI-BR4s against identical combinations in standard Lapua cases with Fed210M primers with 175 and 210gn Bergers.)

Re TAC, we only ever had Ramshot powders briefly in the UK and I got a big fright with it in .308 Win with the old 155gn Sierra Palma MK in a Ruger 77V heavy-barrel sporter. I think it's the only time I've had a manufacturer's listed and below maximum charge weight blow a primer on me! Anyway, I couldn't get any more after that first pound bottle, so its characteristics remain both a mystery and irrelevance to me.

I'm hoping that AR-Comp when it eventually gets here has the same characteristics as Re15. If so, I could see me switching back from VarGet with 90s in .223 Rem.

 

[audredger]

I just tried AR-Comp for my AR-15, 20" Nevsky 1/7 SS Barrel. Using Winchester brass, CCI-400 Primer and 55gr Montana Gold; 23.3 gr AR-Comp = 2775 fps, ES 97, SD 26.7 10 shots; 24.3gr AR-Comp = 2922 fps, ES 83, SD 22, 10 shots.

Thus far I am pleased with the way it meters and the lower ED &SD's over TAC.

 

[cmillard]

laurie, i used TAC in my long range ar-15 with 77 grain sierras and bergers. i scrapped the idea because pressure would really creep up with this powder. keeping a mild load of 23.6 grains of TAC behind a 77 grainer, and going from winchester or LC brass to Federal military brass--was popping primers out of the cases!!! ended up weighing the FC brass and it was on the HEAVY side. i switched to AA 2520 and haven't looked back.