.223 Rem - single-shot follower feed issues

[memilanuk]

So... I have a Savage 10FP that's been a few calibers over the years - .308, then 6 BR, then .308, now a couple of .223 Rem barrels... right now it's 'wearing' a 28" Shilen 1-7" tw with their "90VLD" throat. Primary use is, and has been for a while now, an 'extra' mid-range FTR rifle, for the wife, kids, etc.

Currently it's got a Score-Hi single-shot plate sitting on top of the blind mag spring/follower.

The problem is that a .223 Rem round, particularly with heavier bullets, tends to be kind of nose-heavy. Just tossing a round in on top of the follower and closing the bolt usually doesn't work - the bullet tip butts into the lower face of the barrel. Sometimes reaching up and pulling the round all the way back into the 'belly' of the follower tray, then running the bolt forward works, sometimes not. Fishing the bullet into the chamber point first works every time, but... it's a little annoying to me, and I'm used to it. For someone who isn't... and doesn't have the muscle memory to do it without wriggling up out of position (remember, FTR = shot from prone) to look... it's an awkward affair.

I've been considering different ways of 'fixing' this. And yes, I'm kind of attached to this particular action for sentimental reasons Not sure whether to start trying to build-up and modify the existing follower to raise the rounds up as they approach the chamber, or if I'd better off to actually create a deeper recess so as to make the rounds tip 'up' more? Would a glue-in follower be a better option?

 

[kendog]

For 223 in bolt guns with a flat breech, cut a feature at the chamber mouth similar to the one on an AR 15 barrel.

 

[memilanuk]

Hmmm... interesting notion.

In the past, I had a Lothar-Walther barrel on this gun that shot *amazing* with B80VLDs... but was an absolute PITA for feeding. Both that one, and this one, are pre-fit barrels, with nuts. At the time, I had a local gunsmith put a bit of a radius at the entry to the chamber mouth. We spent some time working out how far we could go without losing support too far up the case head. Not ideal, but it worked.

Now-a-days... seems like people *really* don't like that approach, given the tone of several other threads here. In theory, I could use either Rock-set or red LocTite on the barrel nut to make it 'permanent' so indexing is no longer an issue, then have a feed ramp put in like you describe. Question is, what's fundamentally different about that, vs. the slight radius at the chamber mouth that gets people all in a lather?

I'd still kind of rather stick with working the follower / tray if possible, but I'll keep this in mind as an option.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Lots of times on small dia cases they sit too low because the bolt diameter wont go over a follower if its high enough. You can get a coned bolt and cut the corresponding cone in the barrel and itll help

 

[kendog]

The chamber mouths on push feed Win 70 Ranger and Youth M70's, the first Win "short" action, are profiled exactly like a service rifle M16/AR15 barrel. I cant remember the exact angle or max diameter, but its easy enough to measure an AR barrel. Keep the dimensions exact and no unsupported case head issues.

 

[memilanuk]

Lots of times on small dia cases they sit too low because the bolt diameter wont go over a follower if its high enough.

That's why I was considering going the other direction - dropping the back end of the case, to make it approach the chamber 'nose up'. I do worry that the round may end up tipping back down before it gets the nose into the chamber, though.

The follower I have (Score-Hi) is a simple flat recess. I was looking at an image of a Davidson follower from Sinclair that *looks* like it might have an angled cut, sort of a divot, in the middle, for what I would presume would be the same reason. Maybe not?

Lots of times on small dia cases they sit too low because the bolt diameter wont go over a follower if its high enough. You can get a coned bolt and cut the corresponding cone in the barrel and itll help

Find me a coned bolt head for a Savage short action, and I'll be all over that like a fat kid on a donut!

All joking aside, I've been wishing for *years* for someone to make one (or two) of those...

 

[moorepower]

I have a few 3d printed ones and none will feed worth a crap. I think that i am going to try to make one from Delrin.

 

[DaveTooley]

I have on several occasions modified the single shot adapter to present the round in a more nose up attitude. I did it once on a 40X action with a ball endmill and some creative fixturing.

 

[clowdis]

What Dave said is a correct way to fix it.

 

[jpx2rk]

Sharp Shooter Supply - The Savage Specialists

I have several of these installed in my Model 12's with internal magazines, but I don't shoot the heavies in 223. I can usually just lay the next round on the loading tray and close the bolt. If I don't insert the round in straight, well, bolt don't close.

 

[Pyscodog]

So not to hijack this post but I have a similar question. I'm building a 22-250 on a Stevens 200, AKA Savage action. Its a blind mag center feed. I can't seem to find a single shot follower that works with the center feed. Is there one? Most are for stagger feed.

May have spoken to soon. SSS says they offer one for the "New" center feed action.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Just got a barrel back from SSS. Fred did a "feed cone" cut on the chamber opening. Not excessive, just enough of a cut that my short 20 TCM (20MGM) round now goes into the chamber as smooth as butter.
Before, it was hitting the barrel face and pushing bullets back into the vase necks. LOTS of pros and cons on the mod but for me, works like a dream.
Must have taken him all of 5 minutes. Cut it, had it back in the box and back on it's way to me in nothing flat.

 

[memilanuk]

I have on several occasions modified the single shot adapter to present the round in a more nose up attitude. I did it once on a 40X action with a ball endmill and some creative fixturing.

I don't suppose you would have any pictures of what that might look like...?

 

[urbanrifleman]

I don't suppose you would have any pictures of what that might look like...?

I use a Dremel sanding drum. Start digging the canoe deeper in the back of the follower.

 

[memilanuk]

That's kinda what I have in mind. Wouldn't hurt to have a picture to go by, though

 

[46490]

So... I have a Savage 10FP that's been a few calibers over the years - .308, then 6 BR, then .308, now a couple of .223 Rem barrels... right now it's 'wearing' a 28" Shilen 1-7" tw with their "90VLD" throat. Primary use is, and has been for a while now, an 'extra' mid-range FTR rifle, for the wife, kids, etc.

Currently it's got a Score-Hi single-shot plate sitting on top of the blind mag spring/follower.

The problem is that a .223 Rem round, particularly with heavier bullets, tends to be kind of nose-heavy. Just tossing a round in on top of the follower and closing the bolt usually doesn't work - the bullet tip butts into the lower face of the barrel. Sometimes reaching up and pulling the round all the way back into the 'belly' of the follower tray, then running the bolt forward works, sometimes not. Fishing the bullet into the chamber point first works every time, but... it's a little annoying to me, and I'm used to it. For someone who isn't... and doesn't have the muscle memory to do it without wriggling up out of position (remember, FTR = shot from prone) to look... it's an awkward affair.

I've been considering different ways of 'fixing' this. And yes, I'm kind of attached to this particular action for sentimental reasons Not sure whether to start trying to build-up and modify the existing follower to raise the rounds up as they approach the chamber, or if I'd better off to actually create a deeper recess so as to make the rounds tip 'up' more? Would a glue-in follower be a better option?

I have a FRED SLED from KSS works flawlessly in my model 10.

 

[46490]

I have a FRED SLED from KSS works flawlessly in my model 10. I am shooting a 223AI - just fired 60 rounds for fire forming - no issues!

 

[kendog]

Just got a barrel back from SSS. Fred did a "feed cone" cut on the chamber opening. Not excessive, just enough of a cut that my short 20 TCM (20MGM) round now goes into the chamber as smooth as butter.....

That's how its been done for years . Smaller cases, .375" bolt face, need that little funnel. Checkout the AR....

 

[JSH]

I had similar issues, only a 17FB cartridge.
I spun up a piece of scrap aluminum to just under the OD of the bolt body. Waxed it up with release agent and put some epoxy putty down. Pushed the mandrel into the action and let it set over night. FYI barrel was off. Putty was soft enough I cleaned it out of the race ways. Solved my problem, been in there about 4 years with zero feeding issues.

 

[DaveTooley]

I don't suppose you would have any pictures of what that might look like...?

I'm in Italy at the moment. Send me a PM next week and I'll send you some pics.