If a guy had two almost identical rifles in these calibers, would there really be a need for anything else in center fire rifles. 223 a great walking around patroling varminter and 308 for all you big game needs with the exception of the big bears. At a time I am trying to simplify a little this seems like a great combination. Of course I still need my 45 acp Colt 1911 govt model, my Ruger MkIII target pistol and Binelli 20 ga Featherweight.
223 Rem and 308 Win!!!
- Thread starter GlennGTR1
- Start date
Glenn, you mention walking around so i assume this is not for competetive target shooting, you are going to get a lot of personal opinions, however, the 223 is great for lots of shooting from casual target to pd out to 3-400yds, the 308 is all you need up to black bear, including wester moose and elk as many have been take with 30-06.30-30 which the 308 joins in approximate or greater effect.
miss is a valid thought
these will serve you well
Bob
miss is a valid thought
these will serve you well
Bob
I agree with the .223 being potentially the perfect (commonly available) varmint cartridge. However, I think the .308 is simply undersized to be considered the perfect (commonly available) all around big game cartridge. I would pick a .270 Win over the .308 any day. Remember the .243 Win has the same case as the .308, and many consider it even a bit undersized for deer.
coues52
Silver $$ Contributor
can,t go wrong with those two ..I also respect "RONAKA" post on the 270..given that my wife shot a Big Bull elk with her dads old pre -64 win, 308 using 165 sierras (340 B&C) 2 years ago,just pick your shots..300yards ish..and I love my 2- 223,s rem 788 & savage 12 VLP 1-7..~Danny
Can't agree more you can't go wrong with either caliber! For my area of Pa if you didn't built custom rigs and was just a hunter you could hunt either thing with the 223 and 308. With good shot placement even our Pa black bears will go down.
Hillbilly
Hillbilly
I think you have picked a very versatile combo there. The .308, while it is the same case as the .243, has a much larger and much heavier bullet going downrange that is going to do significantly more damage. It is a near equal of the 30-06 ballistics wise and the ol' 06 has taken every species of game that walks our continent. You just need to pick your shots on the larger game and you will be fine.
The .223 on the other hand, is a fine round for varminting, predators, and most any small game and some medium game as well.
If you were to get a short action Savage with 2 bolt heads, one .223 face and one .308 face, and equip it with 2 shouldered barrels (or even standard Savage type barrels) in .223 and .308, you would have a very versatile rifle that would do most anything needed in North America, as well as most other places as well.
And if you wanted to expand your versatility beyond what you already have, you could add a third barrel in .338 Federal or .358 Winchester and gain a little more thump for the larger game.
With a system like this, you could have one rifle to do most all your hunting with, and have a very capable rifle at that. A detachable magazine Savage could be made to mag feed both .223 and .308 based rounds with just a mag swap, as they have no feed rails in the action. All you would need are barrels and you could expand this system even farther and make it even more versatile. And then there is the other option, and that would be to add a WSM to the mix as well. A .300 or .325 WSM, or even a 7mmWSM, would add some serious reach and firepower to the system, leaving no game in North America safe, and most game in the world would be easily taken as well, with only the largest being out of reach.
I like the .223 and .308 idea, but I like the single rifle idea even more. Beware the man with one rifle, he likely knows how to use it!
Kenny
The .223 on the other hand, is a fine round for varminting, predators, and most any small game and some medium game as well.
If you were to get a short action Savage with 2 bolt heads, one .223 face and one .308 face, and equip it with 2 shouldered barrels (or even standard Savage type barrels) in .223 and .308, you would have a very versatile rifle that would do most anything needed in North America, as well as most other places as well.
And if you wanted to expand your versatility beyond what you already have, you could add a third barrel in .338 Federal or .358 Winchester and gain a little more thump for the larger game.
With a system like this, you could have one rifle to do most all your hunting with, and have a very capable rifle at that. A detachable magazine Savage could be made to mag feed both .223 and .308 based rounds with just a mag swap, as they have no feed rails in the action. All you would need are barrels and you could expand this system even farther and make it even more versatile. And then there is the other option, and that would be to add a WSM to the mix as well. A .300 or .325 WSM, or even a 7mmWSM, would add some serious reach and firepower to the system, leaving no game in North America safe, and most game in the world would be easily taken as well, with only the largest being out of reach.
I like the .223 and .308 idea, but I like the single rifle idea even more. Beware the man with one rifle, he likely knows how to use it!
Kenny
RonAKA said:
It's not just the boiler room that matters but also the lead it's tossing. A .260 kills deer more effectively than a .243 and it's only half a mm bigger in calibre. The 7-08 even more so. There is less efficiency driving smaller diam projectiles out of a given case.
Chris-NZ
ChrisNZ said:
There are pros and cons to a bigger bore. Yes because of the surface area of the bullet, a bigger bore is more efficient at getting velocity with less powder. For example both the 270 and 308 can spit 150 grain bullets at about 2850 pfs. So they will be identical for energy at the muzzle (2700 fpe). But, from that point on is where the con side comes in for the bigger bore. They have to push more air, and slow down faster. At 400 yards the 270 has retained about 1640 fpe, while the 308 has 1320 or about 25% less.
I'd take the .223 and a .260 any day over a .308. The 260 offers higher speeds, flatter trajectory, more energy past a few hundred yards and the bullets have a higher sectional density comparing them. Sure, you can get a 210 grain bullet in a .308 but can you get it up to 2700 FPS to match what a 260 could do with a 160 grain? That 160 grain bullet will drop anything. You can use the 95 grain Vmax or any of the other great .264" varmint bullets for varminting with great effect.
The 260 is one of the most versatile cartridges out there. From 85 grain varmint bullets to 160 grain round nose for thumping rhino. If it's not enough boiler room you can always AI the thing and still use factory ammo in a pinch.
Wayne
The 260 is one of the most versatile cartridges out there. From 85 grain varmint bullets to 160 grain round nose for thumping rhino. If it's not enough boiler room you can always AI the thing and still use factory ammo in a pinch.
Wayne
Ron-
comparing a .270 with a .308 is slightly unfair in terms of the boiler room.
A more interesting comparison (though still unfair) is the .270 v the 7-08.
Assuming:
130 Accubond at 3000 MV out of the .270
140 Accubond at 2900 MV out of the 7-08
With a 100yd zero, at 400yds the relative drop and energy figures are as follows:
-25.6" and 1377
-26.9" and 1473
For roughly 36% more powder, more noise and a bit more recoil, you're hardly gaining much. I've had a .270 since age 16, had a .260 for a while and now mainly use a 7-08 for deer shooting. Can't say I feel in -any- way disadvantaged by not using the .270
Chris-NZ
comparing a .270 with a .308 is slightly unfair in terms of the boiler room.
A more interesting comparison (though still unfair) is the .270 v the 7-08.
Assuming:
130 Accubond at 3000 MV out of the .270
140 Accubond at 2900 MV out of the 7-08
With a 100yd zero, at 400yds the relative drop and energy figures are as follows:
-25.6" and 1377
-26.9" and 1473
For roughly 36% more powder, more noise and a bit more recoil, you're hardly gaining much. I've had a .270 since age 16, had a .260 for a while and now mainly use a 7-08 for deer shooting. Can't say I feel in -any- way disadvantaged by not using the .270
Chris-NZ
I'm a firm beliver in the KISS principal also for non competition guns. Having said that I tend to agree with you, but would add the 22 LR and 12 ga. shotgun for long guns and the .45ACP and 9MM for handguns.
Here's why. With the exception of the 22LR they all are in use by the military on a large scale. That means if things ever do dry up there will always be some of the above mentioned ammo and guns floating around in one form or another.
It's a lot easier to keep ammo on hand and reloading supplies if you keep it simple.
It dosen't matter how many $$$ you have tied up in a rifle, without ammo it's just another expensive club!
Danny
Here's why. With the exception of the 22LR they all are in use by the military on a large scale. That means if things ever do dry up there will always be some of the above mentioned ammo and guns floating around in one form or another.
It's a lot easier to keep ammo on hand and reloading supplies if you keep it simple.
It dosen't matter how many $$$ you have tied up in a rifle, without ammo it's just another expensive club!
Danny
-.308 - custom remy, on recent Nov Oryx hunt i punched thru both shoulders of an oryx at 250yds with a 180game king. Oryx went 20yds and dropped. (everyone was telling me you need at least a 300 win mag)
- les baer .223 -with 77mk at 2750fps i zero at 50 yds, and can hit a 4inch target from zero to 250 with center aim
- les baer 1911 - did a tour in afghanistan and still ticking
-beretta 686 onyx my quail,duck and turkey gun
- les baer .223 -with 77mk at 2750fps i zero at 50 yds, and can hit a 4inch target from zero to 250 with center aim
- les baer 1911 - did a tour in afghanistan and still ticking
-beretta 686 onyx my quail,duck and turkey gun
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