Hello, I've been thinking of throwing on a 223 barrel on my savage 10 fcp sr for cheaper long range (600yds) fun. I've ran across a couple prefit barrels. One is an x caliber 28in 8t and the other a 25in green mountain blank 7t. Both are wylde chambers and I'm planning to use 77 - 80gr bullets. Are there any advantages to a 223 rem match chamber over the wylde? I think both twists should be fine but not sure if the 7t would be to much. I've searched and found a couple really old threads and lots of AR topics but nothing explaining if there is a benefit of the match chamber. My goal is tiny groups and possibly an f/tr match until I get my 308 done. I reload my own pills using varget and re15. Sorry for the novel any help or advice is appreciated.
223 Questions
- Thread starter Anthony Schleusner
- Start date
Ok, to roughly summarize the multitude of chamber differences in 223 / 5.56; I must start with a warning. Many of these chambers have a basic name such as 223 match, of 5.56 match; but the dimensions are the critical part, in particular the throating.
223 and 5.56 have an interesting history; however, 5.56 is run at a higher pressure than 223, in part due to the longer steel core ammo and velocity requirements. This gave us the long throat that when combined with 223s reduced chamber dimensions resulted in a wylde (of sorts). I know of 3 different wylde chambers. Differences are small; but all that I know of are OK for 5.56 ammo; or for the match shooter to seat the 80gr bullets at col of 2.390"-2.550". This typically gives more case space for powder, making 80gr velocities similar to 77gr.
It's possible a 223 match chamber is not throated for the 80gr, this would mean less jump should the user be loading a vld to mag length, or such, but typically not appropriate for the seriously long bullets 80gr, or even 75amax.
In a bolt gun, you'll want velocity and throat to utilize highest BC possible. Us AR guys also tune gas pressure to make gun run, but you won't need to concern yourself with that.
Match chambers typically have less slop, thus keeping brass closer to sized dimensions. There are other changes that are typically made, so I'd suggest you compare reamer prints between your 223 match, 223 wylde to SAAMI 223 and 5.56 to better understand what differences there are.
-Mac
223 and 5.56 have an interesting history; however, 5.56 is run at a higher pressure than 223, in part due to the longer steel core ammo and velocity requirements. This gave us the long throat that when combined with 223s reduced chamber dimensions resulted in a wylde (of sorts). I know of 3 different wylde chambers. Differences are small; but all that I know of are OK for 5.56 ammo; or for the match shooter to seat the 80gr bullets at col of 2.390"-2.550". This typically gives more case space for powder, making 80gr velocities similar to 77gr.
It's possible a 223 match chamber is not throated for the 80gr, this would mean less jump should the user be loading a vld to mag length, or such, but typically not appropriate for the seriously long bullets 80gr, or even 75amax.
In a bolt gun, you'll want velocity and throat to utilize highest BC possible. Us AR guys also tune gas pressure to make gun run, but you won't need to concern yourself with that.
Match chambers typically have less slop, thus keeping brass closer to sized dimensions. There are other changes that are typically made, so I'd suggest you compare reamer prints between your 223 match, 223 wylde to SAAMI 223 and 5.56 to better understand what differences there are.
-Mac
Mac - Thank you for the information. Ive been doing so much reading on the 223 it makes my head spin.
Dantiff - That chart was really helpful!
It looks like the freebores are longer for Wylde and the Match. Would you say all things being equal the match chamber would be more accurate than the Wylde?
Dantiff - That chart was really helpful!
It looks like the freebores are longer for Wylde and the Match. Would you say all things being equal the match chamber would be more accurate than the Wylde?
You have to watch out with the match reamers. The base is small enough that it will cause harder extraction and possibley a stuck case here and there. A small base die will cure that, but it's more/extra work than I dont want to do.
As far as the accuracy goes, my 223 with the match chamber, the one I have that does not have the match chamber and the others I've seen that are not a match chamber, I don't think you'll ever see a difference.
just for information Since you want to shoot 77's and 80's I'd go with the longest freebore you can get. .169 freebore is as short as I'd go from now on, but my 223 with .071 freebore worked good with 80 smk's and allowed 2885 fps comfotably. 2940 fps was loosening the primer pockets after 3 or 4 firings. With the .169 ~3000fps is a comfortable number.
I'd DEFINITELY get an x-caliber over a green mountain. I'd get the longest freebore they have which I'm assuming is the wylde. I'd say go for it, it will work good for you.
Maybe give x-caliber a call and see if they can throat it for you. I know they have offered to chamber a barrel in a cartridge that they don't have a reamer for, how ever they work that out. So it might be worth asking
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Nothing to add regarding chambering, simply a vote for your project.
Last winter I built a .223 AI for the same reason, for some 250-800 yd steel shooting at my home range, as a trainer to match my 6.5 Lapua and as a coyote gun.
Did a blueprinted Rem 700 action, 1 in 8" Kreiger, Timney trigger , Mc Millan A-5 stock, etc. Very close to my Lapua but 1/4 lighter.
It's been a super fun gun to shoot. And with my Elite Iron can I'm able shoot here at home and my 350 yds away neighbor isn't bothered. Good training too without using up my 6.5's barrel. A can of powder last quite a bit longer. Brass and bullets are MUCH cheaper too.
I went with the AI chambering as I have wanted to try one. Wish I would have gone long throat std .223 Rem. With limited testing 75 gr A-Max's are .25-.3 inch for five at 100 yds. Most any 50-55 gr varmint slug also more than accurate enough for coyotes, skunks and badgers.
My only issue is that my fireform loads are super accurate. Yet with limited testing ,my AI loads in the same formed brass...not as accurate. Again...limited testing I hope to beat the problem.
FN in MT
Last winter I built a .223 AI for the same reason, for some 250-800 yd steel shooting at my home range, as a trainer to match my 6.5 Lapua and as a coyote gun.
Did a blueprinted Rem 700 action, 1 in 8" Kreiger, Timney trigger , Mc Millan A-5 stock, etc. Very close to my Lapua but 1/4 lighter.
It's been a super fun gun to shoot. And with my Elite Iron can I'm able shoot here at home and my 350 yds away neighbor isn't bothered. Good training too without using up my 6.5's barrel. A can of powder last quite a bit longer. Brass and bullets are MUCH cheaper too.
I went with the AI chambering as I have wanted to try one. Wish I would have gone long throat std .223 Rem. With limited testing 75 gr A-Max's are .25-.3 inch for five at 100 yds. Most any 50-55 gr varmint slug also more than accurate enough for coyotes, skunks and badgers.
My only issue is that my fireform loads are super accurate. Yet with limited testing ,my AI loads in the same formed brass...not as accurate. Again...limited testing I hope to beat the problem.
FN in MT
Thank you to everyone. I'll have to start a build thread. I bought 2 10fcp srs one 24 and one 20in. Joined the local 600yd club and attended an f class event. Im hooked! Knowing I have tactical types of rifles I decided to turn one into a dedicated f class style rifle and the other into a potent 223 to get more trigger time. I have been learning an incredible amount and really appreciate your help!
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