223 primer question ?

[DLT]

I drug out my 223 today hoping to come up with a good load for the 53vmax. The rifle is a model 12, laminated stock that’s been bedded with a 26” Wilson 8 twist barrel. I did some research and decided on imr 3031 with rem. 7 1/2 primers so I can save my 450s. Did a rough seating dept test with a mild charge starting from .010 off, in .010 increments to .050 off That’s 5 three shot groups. Now the good stuff: .010, .020, and .030 off were all on the same spot on the targets and neither measured over 1/4”. My es wasn’t all that great for none of the groups although I carefully weighed each charge. The brass was some previous used in same chamber Winchester. If I was to change the primer to attempt to tighten up my es how high is the chances will it throw my groups for a loop ?

 

[DIBBS]

If it is shooting that well, stretch the legs on her and see how she does. I assume that you are going to shoot varmints/targets/PD's or groundhogs, or shoot for fun.

Personally I wouldn't change a thing with loads producing 1/4" groups, unless they fall apart at the furthest distance you intend to shoot.

 

[Rocketvapor]

What were the velocities for each group?
Same mild load for all?

 

[DLT]

If it is shooting that well, stretch the legs on her and see how she does. I assume that you are going to shoot varmints/targets/PD's or groundhogs, or shoot for fun.

Personally I wouldn't change a thing with loads producing 1/4" groups, unless they fall apart at the furthest distance you intend to shoot.

You’re correct, we put on a small unsanctioned “crow shoot” every other month on steel crows at random distances from 200 yds to 600 yds. It’s a blast. 6 crows per round and only 2 rounds. Only 1 shot fired each round so if you miss you miss

 

[DLT]

What were the velocities for each group?
Same mild load for all?

Yes. All were at 23.5gr 3031, REM primer and Winchester Brass. Groups were shot in order not round robin. Temps was in the low 50s and I did not let rounds sit in chamber long prior to shooting. 223 so it never got much over a warm barrel anyways

.010 jump: 3012, 3028, 3057
.020 jump: 3051, 3046, 3037
.030 jump: 3069, 3045, 3054
.040 jump: 3022, 3072, 3076
.050 jump: 3051, 3033, 3006

 

[WyleWD]

I drug out my 223 today hoping to come up with a good load for the 53vmax. The rifle is a model 12, laminated stock that’s been bedded with a 26” Wilson 8 twist barrel. I did some research and decided on imr 3031 with rem. 7 1/2 primers so I can save my 450s. Did a rough seating dept test with a mild charge starting from .010 off, in .010 increments to .050 off That’s 5 three shot groups. Now the good stuff: .010, .020, and .030 off were all on the same spot on the targets and neither measured over 1/4”. My es wasn’t all that great for none of the groups although I carefully weighed each charge. The brass was some previous used in same chamber Winchester. If I was to change the primer to attempt to tighten up my es how high is the chances will it throw my groups for a loop ?

Do the same test with both primers and see what the target, chrony, and rifle tell you. (?) Abbreviate the test to your .010, .020, and .030 and check your results. JMHO. But if the target looks as good as you say, I kinda like the .020 numbers.WD

 

[DLT]

Do the same test with both primers and see what the target, chrony, and rifle tell you. (?) Abbreviate the test to your .010, .020, and .030 and check your results. JMHO. But if the target looks as good as you say, I kinda like the .020 numbers.WD

I probably will do that next chance . I don’t want to be a numbers guy but was just curious. .030 started stringing verticle all though all 3 shots were cutting each other, .040 was not a good group at all and .050 came right back and was possibly going to be another 1 hole group but I pulled the rear of the gun back on target and as soon as I did I squeezed the trigger so that one was my frault . Don’t know why .040 off was so ugly and .050 was back very tight again but it was

 

[PatMiles]

If I was to change the primer to attempt to tighten up my es how high is the chances will it throw my groups for a loop ?

What's the harm in trying? The change is easy, not permanent in any way and the numbers don't make you happy just go back to the original primers.

 

[DLT]

What's the harm in trying? The change is easy, not permanent in any way and the numbers don't make you happy just go back to the original primers.

Won’t harm a thing. Just curious what you guys experiences were on group size with just a primer change. No change, small change, or big change ? I know it all depends and have to try it to find out

 

[jpx2rk]

I've had various results trying to improve a load with a primer change. I usually just make a note as to what other primer(s) work well/good with that load data so I can just load and go if the need arose, such as running low on the preferred primer when loading up for a rat shoot, etc. The difference in group size is usually not significant enough for my purposes of varmint shoots.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Maybe some primer WEIGHT SORTING would cut E.S.

 

[dusterdave173]

Chasing ES with 223 is a tall challenge--Smile at the good groups--ignore the ES
53 Vmax is a great bullet--excellent choice--it does buck the wind better than other bullets in that weight class for sure
FWIW with 223 / 53g Vmax N133 powder has done best for me and tightened up that ES and was not primer sensitive
Good luck looks like Fun!

 

[DLT]

Maybe some primer WEIGHT SORTING would cut E.S.

Maybe so but I would probably lose what sanity I have left.

Not going to knock those that do but I “hope” I never get into brass weight sorting, turning necks, weighing primers or bullet sorting lol I’m not saying it doesn’t matter just not a road I want to go down

 

[markm87]

If I was to change the primer to attempt to tighten up my es how high is the chances will it throw my groups for a loop ?

Very good chance. Primer swaps in .223 make huge differences. 3031 being turtle slow in velocities in .223, I'd stick with the hottest primer you have.

 

[DLT]

Very good chance. Primer swaps in .223 make huge differences. 3031 being turtle slow in velocities in .223, I'd stick with the hottest primer you have.

Slow ? My manual has it on up there. Hornady

 

[markm87]

Slow ? My manual has it on up there. Hornady

I had some 3031 that my buddy picked up randomly. When I researched it, it had the reputation for low velocities in 223.

That matched my findings. I don't have my data handy, but I'd get pressure signs at velocities lowers than that of other powders. I still loaded it all up for banging steel. Believe me, any powder is nice to have.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I'm playing with 223loads right now and taking 4 primers to the range on Sunday to group test at 500. I'm using 24g Varget in LC brass /75g Hornady Match, with Remington 7 1/2, RWS (RUAG), Federal Gold and Ginex. I would normally only use the Federal or CC! BR4, but supplies being what they are, everything needs testing for alternative loads.

 

[DLT]

I had some 3031 that my buddy picked up randomly. When I researched it, it had the reputation for low velocities in 223.

That matched my findings. I don't have my data handy, but I'd get pressure signs at velocities lowers than that of other powders. I still loaded it all up for banging steel. Believe me, any powder is nice to have.

I’ll have to try and see what happens in my gun I guess. BIG IF it keeps this up I’ll run it on lower side

 

[jelenko]

I'm playing with 223loads right now and taking 4 primers to the range on Sunday to group test at 500. I'm using 24g Varget in LC brass /75g Hornady Match, with Remington 7 1/2, RWS (RUAG), Federal Gold and Ginex. I would normally only use the Federal or CC! BR4, but supplies being what they are, everything needs testing for alternative loads.

A vote requesting you post the results.

 

[DLT]

I'm playing with 223loads right now and taking 4 primers to the range on Sunday to group test at 500. I'm using 24g Varget in LC brass /75g Hornady Match, with Remington 7 1/2, RWS (RUAG), Federal Gold and Ginex. I would normally only use the Federal or CC! BR4, but supplies being what they are, everything needs testing for alternative loads.

Amen