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223 Ftr Bullet

CharlieNC

Gold $$ Contributor
I've been shooting 90gr Bergers for several years with great results. I have a new barrel with Kiff chamber, but only a marginal supply of bullets. Looks like 80 and 77gr Bergers are available, anybody with this chamber have good experience with either of these? I'll shoot them at 300 and save the 90's for longer range.
 
I SHOOT ALOT OF 90GR BERGERS BUT I SAY THIS THE 80GR BERGERS DOES VERY WELL ALSO OUT OF MY 7 TWIST 223 ACKELY WITH VARGET AND RL-15 ALSO HAVE A BRUX BARREL IN A 8 TWIST 223 THAT LOVES 75GR BERGERS AND RL-15
 
If your rig likes the 80s, you will do fine with them out to at least 600. Beyond that, folks using the higher BC will have a slight advantage on you if they are pushing pressure.
 
As long as you are shooting 600 and in you’ll be fine, though you are giving up a little to the 90s and 308s. At 1000 just have fun And dont sweat the score
 
The only question would be whether the freebore on the rifle is too long to load the 80s optimally. If you have a chamber cut with PTG's 223 Rem ISSF reamer (0.169" fb), you can still load Berger's 80.5 Fullbore bullet with sufficient bearing surface seated in the neck to work. If the chamber has 0.200"+ freebore, maybe not so well. If you have/use a Hornady OAL gauge, it's easy to make an estimate by simply seating the bullet out to just "touching" the lands and see where it sits in the neck.

In the event the freebore is simply too long for the bullet of choice (i.e. not enough shank in the neck at "touching"), the alternative is to jump them a greater distance than you might normally. It can still be possible to tune a load using seating depth with a bullet that is shorter than would be optimal for a given freebore chamber, but you may have to carry out the seating depth test window starting farther away from the lands to maintain sufficient bullet shank in the neck and test over a pretty wide window.

As has been mentioned, there are other options such as the Sierra 90 SMK or Hornady's 88 ELDM, if you can find some. The bearing surface length of the 90 SMK is about .010" longer than the 90 VLD, so the amount of shank in the neck at a given seating depth will be pretty close between the two. The issue with the 88 ELDM is that it has a much longer bearing surface than either of the two 90 gr bullets. Even in a .223 Rem with 0.220" freebore, they are seated pretty far below the neck/shoulder junction. So in a rifle with 0.169" freebore, they would seated way down in the case. That does not mean they couldn't be used, just that you'd have to be much more cognizant about pressure, and you might end up by necessity with a load that was slower than desired due to the potential pressure issues and the velocity of the uppermost node you could hit at safe operating pressure. Killing the primer pockets of the brass in a single firing is not a good way to go.

I have shot the 80.5s numerous times at 300/600 yd. I also know a couple F-TR shooters at my local club matches that use the 80 VLDs at 600 yd. At 600 yd it can certainly be done, but if there is much wind, your wind calls will have to be a LOT better in order to be competitive. Even when loaded to somewhere in the 2900-3000-ish fps velocity range, the 80s are giving up a lot to the 90 VLDs/.308 shooters, not just a little bit. The difference in expected wind deflection would be on the order of 0.6 MOA or more. However, the benefits to going this route would be that you can still participate and have fun, and your wind reading skills will likely improve. Your plan of using the 80s at 300 yd, thereby saving the 90s for 600 yd work is a good one. I used to do exactly that in local 300 and 600 yd matches. You still have to be on your toes with the 80s if it's windy, even at 300 yd. However, the predicted difference in wind deflection between the two choices is obviously much less, maybe </= 0.25 MOA. It's doable.

I wouldn't be surprised of we see new production runs of the 80-95 gr .224 bullets from companies such as Berger and Sierra, with bullets becoming available sometime from mid-summer to fall. This is solely a guess on my part (i.e. I have no inside information whatsoever), but it seems reasonable based on announcements made by these companies regarding bullet production about one year ago. Keep your fingers crossed and maybe these bullets will show up before the shooting season ends.
 
The only question would be whether the freebore on the rifle is too long to load the 80s optimally. If you have a chamber cut with PTG's 223 Rem ISSF reamer (0.169" fb), you can still load Berger's 80.5 Fullbore bullet with sufficient bearing surface seated in the neck to work. If the chamber has 0.200"+ freebore, maybe not so well. If you have/use a Hornady OAL gauge, it's easy to make an estimate by simply seating the bullet out to just "touching" the lands and see where it sits in the neck.

In the event the freebore is simply too long for the bullet of choice (i.e. not enough shank in the neck at "touching"), the alternative is to jump them a greater distance than you might normally. It can still be possible to tune a load using seating depth with a bullet that is shorter than would be optimal for a given freebore chamber, but you may have to carry out the seating depth test window starting farther away from the lands to maintain sufficient bullet shank in the neck and test over a pretty wide window.

As has been mentioned, there are other options such as the Sierra 90 SMK or Hornady's 88 ELDM, if you can find some. The bearing surface length of the 90 SMK is about .010" longer than the 90 VLD, so the amount of shank in the neck at a given seating depth will be pretty close between the two. The issue with the 88 ELDM is that it has a much longer bearing surface than either of the two 90 gr bullets. Even in a .223 Rem with 0.220" freebore, they are seated pretty far below the neck/shoulder junction. So in a rifle with 0.169" freebore, they would seated way down in the case. That does not mean they couldn't be used, just that you'd have to be much more cognizant about pressure, and you might end up by necessity with a load that was slower than desired due to the potential pressure issues and the velocity of the uppermost node you could hit at safe operating pressure. Killing the primer pockets of the brass in a single firing is not a good way to go.

I have shot the 80.5s numerous times at 300/600 yd. I also know a couple F-TR shooters at my local club matches that use the 80 VLDs at 600 yd. At 600 yd it can certainly be done, but if there is much wind, your wind calls will have to be a LOT better in order to be competitive. Even when loaded to somewhere in the 2900-3000-ish fps velocity range, the 80s are giving up a lot to the 90 VLDs/.308 shooters, not just a little bit. The difference in expected wind deflection would be on the order of 0.6 MOA or more. However, the benefits to going this route would be that you can still participate and have fun, and your wind reading skills will likely improve. Your plan of using the 80s at 300 yd, thereby saving the 90s for 600 yd work is a good one. I used to do exactly that in local 300 and 600 yd matches. You still have to be on your toes with the 80s if it's windy, even at 300 yd. However, the predicted difference in wind deflection between the two choices is obviously much less, maybe </= 0.25 MOA. It's doable.

I wouldn't be surprised of we see new production runs of the 80-95 gr .224 bullets from companies such as Berger and Sierra, with bullets becoming available sometime from mid-summer to fall. This is solely a guess on my part (i.e. I have no inside information whatsoever), but it seems reasonable based on announcements made by these companies regarding bullet production about one year ago. Keep your fingers crossed and maybe these bullets will show up before the shooting season ends.

YES the essence of my question is the heaviest bullets I can find are the Berger 75-80VLD and with the 0.169 freebore which of these has shot well for anyone.
 
I ordered 80VLD from Blue Collar and received them the next day. If they shoot decent then my 90s will last for longer range until hopefully another production run before too much longer.
 
YES the essence of my question is the heaviest bullets I can find are the Berger 75-80VLD and with the 0.169 freebore which of these has shot well for anyone.
If it interests you in any way.

 
If it interests you in any way.

These were my first option, but could not find until after receiving the 80's!
 
I shot a Palma (800/900/1000) using a 223 gas gun with 88 ELDM's last week. 7 twist kreiger with a Wylde chamber. I was very pleased with the elevation they held and how they played in some pretty dicey winds. MV was 2800fps. Midsouth has them in stock.
 
800 yard target. Iron sight sling shooter. 99-8x for the first ten… then I got behind the wind. 13-20 gusts to 25. 11:00-1:00 switches
 

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I shot a Palma (800/900/1000) using a 223 gas gun with 88 ELDM's last week. 7 twist kreiger with a Wylde chamber. I was very pleased with the elevation they held and how they played in some pretty dicey winds. MV was 2800fps. Midsouth has them in stock.
What powder were you using to get that velocity? Ive only tried Varget in my 26" bolt gun and topped out around 2750, just loaded 10 rounds of different charges looking for pressure.
Looking at tryin CFE223, IMR 4895, 3031. Not sure yet.
 
What powder were you using to get that velocity? Ive only tried Varget in my 26" bolt gun and topped out around 2750, just loaded 10 rounds of different charges looking for pressure.
Looking at tryin CFE223, IMR 4895, 3031. Not sure yet.
An over book charge of IMR 8208XBR. All the usual disclaimers as to safe reloading and risk assumption with this data. I was at 24.5 gr, jumping 0.010". LC brass 4x fired and Fed 205MAR primers. Work up until you get pressure signs. This was in a 26" gas gun with a +2 gas system. No swipes on the brass but the primers are starting to show some flatness. I will likely back off some as it warms up this summer.
 

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