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223 f/tr loads

Cory porter

Silver $$ Contributor
Just got a new 223 f/tr rifle. It's a savage target action with a 30in brux. I have the option to either use lapua or LC brass, my plan is to use 80g amax, 80g Berger or 90 Berger. And I many different powder options on hand. I'll be using this mainly in 300 yard varmint matches and the occasional 600 yard matches. Any reloading guidance or load ideas.
 
Just got a new 223 f/tr rifle. It's a savage target action with a 30in brux. I have the option to either use lapua or LC brass, my plan is to use 80g amax, 80g Berger or 90 Berger. And I many different powder options on hand. I'll be using this mainly in 300 yard varmint matches and the occasional 600 yard matches. Any reloading guidance or load ideas.

Do not overlook the 82 gr. Berger & Varget.
 
80 grain A-Max is no longer in production. You could go with the 75 ELD Match, but you'd be giving up precious BC and weight.

Edited to remove erroneous information. Can't blame alcohol or drugs for lack of accuracy, so I'm gonna call it a brain fart, TIA or something.

Starting to become worrisome....maybe more fishing is in my future....

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
 
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I shoot both the 80.5s and 90s in F-TR. Anyone telling you there is no difference between the two probably isn't actually shooting both of them. I am, and I can tell you the difference is significant. Past about 500 yd, the 80.5s aren't even in the same league with the 90s if there is much wind at all. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the 80.5, it's a fantastic bullet, great precision and very easy to tune. However, its BC is sufficiently lower than that of the 90 VLD that you will never be able to overcome the BC deficit solely by the increased velocity. Not even close. And the difference really starts to show past 500 yd. That doesn't mean you can't do well shooting the 80s, it simply means you will be at a disadvantage in terms of wind resistance against other .223 shooters using the 90s, or .308 shooters using anything from 155s on up. The 90 VLDs will hold their own against .308 bullets up to the 185 gr range, whereas they will also be at a disadvantage against 200+ gr .308 bullets. In either case, the disadvantage increase with the distance.

Your 7-twist barrel will allow you to shoot either one. You could try both and see what your rifle tells you. In the event you decided to go with the 90s for longer distances, the 80.5s could still be a reasonable choice for 300 yd, where the windage difference between the two bullets will be smaller. If you plan to shoot mostly at 300 yd and only on occasion at 600 yd, that wouldn't be a bad way to go, and would only require developing a load with one bullet. However, I personally would go with the 90 VLDs if I wanted to load only one. Nothing at all will be left on table by going that route.
 
I shoot both the 80.5s and 90s in F-TR. Anyone telling you there is no difference between the two probably isn't actually shooting both of them. I am, and I can tell you the difference is significant. Past about 500 yd, the 80.5s aren't even in the same league with the 90s if there is much wind at all. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the 80.5, it's a fantastic bullet, great precision and very easy to tune. However, its BC is sufficiently lower than that of the 90 VLD that you will never be able to overcome the BC deficit solely by the increased velocity. Not even close. And the difference really starts to show past 500 yd. That doesn't mean you can't do well shooting the 80s, it simply means you will be at a disadvantage in terms of wind resistance against other .223 shooters using the 90s, or .308 shooters using anything from 155s on up. The 90 VLDs will hold their own against .308 bullets up to the 185 gr range, whereas they will also be at a disadvantage against 200+ gr .308 bullets. In either case, the disadvantage increase with the distance.

Your 7-twist barrel will allow you to shoot either one. You could try both and see what your rifle tells you. In the event you decided to go with the 90s for longer distances, the 80.5s could still be a reasonable choice for 300 yd, where the windage difference between the two bullets will be smaller. If you plan to shoot mostly at 300 yd and only on occasion at 600 yd, that wouldn't be a bad way to go, and would only require developing a load with one bullet. However, I personally would go with the 90 VLDs if I wanted to load only one. Nothing at all will be left on table by going that route.

Appreciate the advice. The previous owner basically said the same thing about the rifle. He shoots both 80amax and 90g Berger. I'm assuming they are vld, if that is the case ill get the load data from him. He did say they were hot, I think 24.5 varget. I'm mainly interested in the oal because I've been told the 90 vld bullets are a lot more difficult to tune. If that is the case I'll get a rough guess on length and start at a lower charge and work up. I would prefer not the destroy my lapua primer pockets after a few firings especially for 300 yard matches. So I may even try LC brass. He also said the chamber is super tight. He had to use small base dies, I have a Redding small base body die I'll use on all my processed LC brass in order to get it to chamber.
 
With the 90 VLDs in Lapua brass using a 30" barrel with appropriate freebore, look for about the 2820-ish fps range with Varget, 2850-ish fps range with H4895. Velocity and seating depth are key to getting the 90s to perform well. Most people using the 90s with good success have been using the 223 Rem ISSF reamer with 0.169" freebore from Dave Kiff/PTG. Alternatively, you could use the UniThroater tool to lengthen an existing freebore. The 90s are quite long and require a generous freebore to seat optimally. With a .169 fb and 90s seated at .018" off the lands, my COAL is 2.638".

Powder-wise, H4895 in the 2850 fps range will be fairly hard on primer pockets. I have observed that the pockets on as high as perhaps 1/3 of the brass pieces won't survive past four firings. How much longer the ones that did survive will last is as yet unclear. Varget at about 25-30 fps slower should be much less of a problem. I purchased some new (unfired) LC .223 brass for load workup with a new .223 rifle for the exact same reason you mentioned. However, I found the Lot of brass I purchased had significant amounts of brass flashing that was seemingly semi-welded to the inside of the case head all a round the flash hole. This material proved to be impossible for me to effectively remove with the tools I have available, but I really didn't even want to consider the possibility of that stuff flying out into the barrel during firing, so I decided to stick with Lapua. YMMV.

You might consider actually starting out with a seating depth test and a slightly reduced charge weight to determine whether the 90s want to be seated into the lands, or off the lands. In my hands for two different rifles, the 90s have tuned in beautifully between about .015" and .021" off the lands. However, many others have had their best results somewhere between about .005" and .010" into the lands. A quick seating depth test initially could well point you toward one or the other, saving some time and effort later. I really have not found the 90s difficult to tune at all. If you get the velocity and seating depth right, which shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish if you work up around the values listed above, the 90s can be tuned in to shoot exceedingly well.
 
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While I know everyone is shooting the 90 gr. Bergers in 7-twist barrels I am going a different route. The newly designed, pointed, thicker jacketed 90 gr. Sierras are easy to tune from a seating depth standpoint and stabilize much better than the Bergers since they are shorter. A check on the Berger twist stabilizing program confirms the Bergers lose about 3% of their BC with a 7-twist (stabilizing at 1.3-ish) while the Sierras stabilize at 1.6-ish - well over the 1.5 Litz recommends. All I know is that they seem to be shooting to 1K very well for me. I cut a long throat to seat them out enough for 24.3-.5 gr. of Varget and their vertical is under 1/2 moa - as a sling shooter that is better than I usually hold.
FWIW
 
Grab the Amax's while you can. I shoot ftr to 600 yards with my 26" Benchmark using 75 Amax and H4895. M-HM scores always At 600, HM scores at 300.

Don Dunlap
 
My rifle likes the 80 gr A Max and 24.5/25.0 Varget with a CCI 450 primer. I have used 25.5 Varget but the brass (lapua) gets beat up pretty fast. As far as the 80 Amax going extinct, I thought they changed the tip and are bringing it out in the new version. I could be wrong. My rifle didn't like the other 80's and really hated the 90's.
 
The 80 grain hybrid?????? Is this even on the market or exist yet?

Thanks for correcting me....WOW, you caught me in full Brain Fart there....getting old ain't for sissies I guess.

I will correct that to say I am shooting 80 gr. Sierra Match Kings out of my 22-250 because I can't buy the A-Max anymore. Yes, some are available here and there from hand loaders, but generally not in stores. Not on Hornaday's web page either.

I am shooting the 105 gr. Berger Hybrid from my 6mmBR, and again had to switch from 105 A-Max due to availability. Glad I did, the Berger shoots much better.
 
Since we are going into loads for 80 gr, please look at the starting and max loads recommended for 80 gr and Varget from Hodgdon, Lyman and Berger. There is one huge disparity.

I am doing seating tests for 80 gr bergers and Varget and just picked a random load of 22.0 grains because of the disparity.

BTW- SavGE f/tr 1:7 30" barrel for me.
 

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