.223 AI velocity Expectations

[rockhound78]

Might not be relevant, but my 22br is a 12" twist and it shoots 53gr vmax very well, however I am pushing them at 3800fps.

 

[JAlfred]

I have one and there’s no magic. Just expected velocity gain over a 223 loaded to similar pressures. Ackleys don’t show the pressure of course like a standard case does and this is where the “magic” happens I believe!

I am not trying to bash anybody, it is just that I am old enough to remember the good old days before quickload and widespread pressure testing equipment. There was lots of magic in the air and a lot in published reloading manuals as well. We have it so much better now.

I hope to screw an 223 AI on one of my savages eventually.

 

[xswanted]

I am not trying to bash anybody, it is just that I am old enough to remember the good old days before quickload and widespread pressure testing equipment. There was lots of magic in the air and a lot in published reloading manuals as well. We have it so much better now.

I hope to screw an 223 AI on one of my savages eventually.

Yep understood.

Ive ran mine hard to see what COULD be achieved.

I settled on a load that is slightly above book max, but the brass is on its 13th firing now. I’m guessing I’m over pressure but the brass I standing up well.

I believe many people over load it by quite aways.

 

[miningshawn]

DPMS Oracle stock uppper, lower, and bolt
McGowen SS 1:8 .223AI 24" HBAR
Rifle length gas tube.
10 across a Magnetospeed, from the magazine, rear bag and a bipod, in 60 seconds(ish). Before Ackleyizing (is that a word?) averaged velocity was 2765.
Shot at 6400ft ASL and altitude\density was 8500 - your results may vary.

 

[Longtrain]

My 223AI, sports a 30” barrel, I have so many 223 bullets, it will take me a bit to test them all out.
69 SMK’s do 3200 easily not being pushed to max. Very accurate bullet.
Sierra 60 TMK’s get ~3400 FPS again below max. At 100 yards they are just over 1/4 MOA. Stupid accurate. In a 100 yard fun match shot a clean 400x38x.
I loaded up some 52 SMK’s too and will test them soon, I expect 3500+.
With 80.5 Berger’s I get 3050 with N203B, it’s pretty accurate, but if I use if for mid-range FClass matches, it needs a bit more work.

Generally, my match loads in my Dasher and previously in my 308 were all under 3000 FPS, it’s amazing that the 3400 - 3500 rounds get to the target so much faster. In 100 yard matches, I pull the trigger and a hole appears, kinda cool.

 

[Matt_3479]

I have a few 223AI's & the best I would expect w/53 V-Max is 3650, though you may be able to find a combination that will push it on up a bit. With 50 V-Max, 3750 is pretty easy. Would recommend that you find some good tough brass if you want to push it that hard. In my experience recommendations, in order of best on down, would be IMI, Lapua Match, LC, WCC. I think all 4 of these are NATO rated (65,000 psi). The 223AI is a great round with typical AI brass life. My current favorite is the 20-223AI pushing a 40 grain bullet over 4,000 fps easily.

isn’t that damn close to a 20 tac then? Or is it a 40 degree shoulder

 

[SmokinJoe]

20-223AI is a 40 degree shoulder and performance is measurably better than 20 Prac or TAC.

 

[AckleymanII]

How so, Smokin?

 

[SmokinJoe]

In my experience, the 20 Prac/Tac tops out at about 3850 with 40 gr but the 20-223AI gets on up to above 4000 with no pressure signs. To me that is a measurable difference.

 

[B23]

Depending on the brand of brass the 20-223AI has about the same case capacity, maybe a tiny bit more, than the 204 Ruger so at equal pressure a 20-223AI and 204 Ruger will run relatively the same velocities.

BUT, when you square off the shoulder and take the taper out of a case it hides many of the pressure signs so they get loaded to higher, often much higher, pressures without many people realizing it or better yet, wanting to realize it. That, combined with the fact most 223 brass, particularly Lapua brass, can take a lot more abuse than 204 Ruger brass so don't be surprised when you hear some talk of velocities well above the 204 Ruger.

The 223AI case only gains a little over 2gr measured in water over the parent 223 case which isn't very much. Yet you'll hear of speeds from a 223AI that nearly, if not, rival that of the much larger case capacity 22-250. There is nothing magical about AI'ing a 223 case that gets those crazy velocities. Anyone talking about getting hundreds of FPS faster with their 223AI over standard 223 is doing so at much higher pressures, often, extremely higher.

I had my 223AI built about fifteen years ago it's one of the best shooting rifles I own, but all things, including pressure, being equal the 223AI only nets about 100fps over the standard 223.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I ordered a Shilen pre chambered replacement barrel for my Savage. 26 inch, 12 twist. Does anyone use or have tried Benchmark or LT-32 with 53 grain bullets?

26.7 LT32 with 50 TNTS gets me 3850.

 

[Tommie]

In general, Ackley Improved cartridges don’t exhibit many of the pressure signs we typically inspect for. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that excessive pressures are not present. There aint no free lunch. Pressure is what pushes bullets down the bore. Higher velocity = higher pressure.

 

[SmokinJoe]

I am using IMI brass which is maybe the toughest of all 223 brass, but my primers don't indicate high pressure nor is there any hint of a stiff bolt, etc. In the 20-223AI with 39 BK, Fed 205, and H4895 I get 4050 fps with no indications of over pressure. This is in a Dakota Varminter with bushed firing pin, so it is a tight action setup. The guy who recommended this load stuffs another .5 gr into his and has a longer barrel giving 4150 fps which is his go-to hunting load.

 

[AckleymanII]

In my experience, the 20 Prac/Tac tops out at about 3850 with 40 gr but the 20-223AI gets on up to above 4000 with no pressure signs. To me that is a measurable difference.

that is just fantastic to say the least! Thanks for sharing! We are doing between 4000-4100 with the 40g Ballistic tips in the 22 version with AA2015 and N133 with amazing accuracy, but the 20 cal version has a tad better bC, eh?

 

[SmokinJoe]

Yeah, and that sucker shoots unbelievably flat.

 

[JSH]

Depending on the brand of brass the 20-223AI has about the same case capacity, maybe a tiny bit more, than the 204 Ruger so at equal pressure a 20-223AI and 204 Ruger will run relatively the same velocities.

BUT, when you square off the shoulder and take the taper out of a case it hides many of the pressure signs so they get loaded to higher, often much higher, pressures without many people realizing it or better yet, wanting to realize it. That, combined with the fact most 223 brass, particularly Lapua brass, can take a lot more abuse than 204 Ruger brass so don't be surprised when you hear some talk of velocities well above the 204 Ruger.

The 223AI case only gains a little over 2gr measured in water over the parent 223 case which isn't very much. Yet you'll hear of speeds from a 223AI that nearly, if not, rival that of the much larger case capacity 22-250. There is nothing magical about AI'ing a 223 case that gets those crazy velocities. Anyone talking about getting hundreds of FPS faster with their 223AI over standard 223 is doing so at much higher pressures, often, extremely higher.

I had my 223AI built about fifteen years ago it's one of the best shooting rifles I own, but all things, including pressure, being equal the 223AI only nets about 100fps over the standard 223.

Would be interesting to have a pressure gauge on some of these loads mentioned. I think a good many would be shocked.
Just not many ways around getting high crazy speeds without over pressure.

Don’t get me wrong. The past couple of years I have gotten a couple of rifles that are ridiculous speeds with book loads. I have two at the moment I am trying to slow down.

CFE223,Hybrid100V and R26 have shown me some ridiculous speeds with book loads and no noticeable pressure signs or issues.

Just this past weekend working with a 22Nosler bolt gun. 55’s running at 3600 and change, the 1-8” barrel started blowing them up, CFE223 33.0

 

[SmokinJoe]

JSH, I backed mine down to 3950 for PD shooting, but the potential is certainly there. No doubt the actual pressure is pretty high but my combination is handling it well.

 

[sscoyote]

I'm also running a 9T 26" Hart-barreled 223 AI AR similar to Shawn's above, and I think I have a hummer barrel since it shoots everything very well, but the last several years I've been using 60 and 69 TMK's, and they just beat everything for combined great accuracy and terminal effect on coyotes out to 500ish yds. But it's incredibly accurate with the 65 JLK Low Drag, just not as good terminally.

 

[FilippoMo]

I wonder if somebody have chambered AR 15 rifles for the 223AI and if there are feeding problems.
Filippo

 

[Damon555]

I had my 223AI built about fifteen years ago it's one of the best shooting rifles I own, but all things, including pressure, being equal the 223AI only nets about 100fps over the standard 223.

That has been my experience also.....not much of a gain but just enough to make it interesting. My 223 AI shoots neck and neck with my son's 204 Ruger not quite as fast obviously but a slightly heavier bullet will retain some oomph down range a little further.