223 53 gr Vmax with N133 and TAC

[RabbitSlayer]

Starting load development for my Tikka Varmint in .223 and my buddies Tikka Super Varmint in 223 this weekend! Both have about 200 rds on them.

For my buddies rifle its 53gr vmax, TAC, CCI 400, and new starline 556 brass. What charge did you settle on with TAC and 53 gr vmax?

For my rifle it is N133, Rem 7.5, and new starline 556 brass. What charge did you settle on for 53 gr vmax and N133?

I guess I will start with my buddies rifle since it is ball powder and the temps are similar to when we prairie dog hunt, 85 to 95. I am inclined to go with the low node for all my rifles, but especially since the ammo for these guns will be cooking in the truck over 100 when we shoot PDs.

I will start with the BTO\COL I settled on for my Ruger MPR with same bullet. Its like 0.003 under AR mag length. My buddy uses factory mags for now. I single feed with a sled 95% the time, but occasionally I use AICS mags. Anyone know max mag length for Tikka mags and AICS compared to pmags? Never cared much since I single feed all my rifles mostly.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I've been recently working with the 223 Rem using a 50 grain bullet and N133. Using two bullets I ended up at 23 to 24 grains of N133. I like to use Federal small rifle primers. I haven't seen as good results with the Remington 7 1/2 primers.

 

[RegionRat]

The MDT plastic mags will go about 2.550"



Accurate is supposed to be 2.325" but there have been some that run 2.550", not sure why that is because their web site doesn't show past 2.325"

 

[RabbitSlayer]

I've been recently working with the 223 Rem using a 50 grain bullet and N133. Using two bullets I ended up at 23 to 24 grains of N133. I like to use Federal small rifle primers. I haven't seen as good results with the Remington 7 1/2 primers.

Shame the Remington 7.5 didn't work out. I have some federal AR match primers, but they are basically reserved for my AR load. My choices are CCI 400 and Remington 7.5. If those don't work out, I will have to change powders or projectiles.

 

[Mark M.]

Who's stock are you using on you varmint?

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Who's stock are you using on you varmint?

Krg bravo. I really like it. I have another on a tikka in 6 creed.

 

[searcher]

I never got too good of results with the N powder, as compared to other powders tried - so I discarded that data. In about 8 different .223's I have dialed in, Tac did work in some of them. With the 53, my best group came with 24.1 grains. As it wasn't my best powder for the rifle for which I recorded this - I can't tell you what the velocity was, nor whether it was a warm load - so work up. It was an accurate load though. I found that the TAC did best shooting the lead-free bullets, notably the 50 Varmint Grenade. It surpassed all other powders with those 50 VG's. I shot most of these in A/R's, so all primers were thicker cupped models.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

I never got too good of results with the N powder, as compared to other powders tried - so I discarded that data. In about 8 different .223's I have dialed in, Tac did work in some of them. With the 53, my best group came with 24.1 grains. As it wasn't my best powder for the rifle for which I recorded this - I can't tell you what the velocity was, nor whether it was a warm load - so work up. It was an accurate load though. I found that the TAC did best shooting the lead-free bullets, notably the 50 Varmint Grenade. It surpassed all other powders with those 50 VG's. I shot most of these in A/R's, so all primers were thicker cupped models.

Thats not too encouraging. Everyone raves about N133 and TAC. Hope they work cuz I have 9 lbs of N133 and 16 lbs of TAC .

Exterminator with the 53 gr vmax is like .6 moa in my AR. With the 50 gr vmax a mid charge weight is like .5 MOA in my Tikka Varmint.

 

[searcher]

The N133 is great powder - but doesn't always do the best in a particular barrel. The best powders I have used shooting the 50-53 grain V-Maxes came with either Accurate LT-32, Reloader 7, H4198 or IMR 8208XBR. Seems some tubes like a faster powder - some slower. Interestingly, many barrels with twists ranging from 1-12" to 1-8" all like the LT32 with the 50 V-Max. Since you have a lot of the N133 and TAC, I might try a different bullet with the N133 (maybe a little heavier - like a 55?) to see how that changes your tune and maybe try the 50 VG with your TAC. I did get somewhat decent groups shooting 21.8 grains of N133 with the 50 V-Max (1/2" MOA), using LC brass and Federal A/R Match primers (1-9" tw.). I found another acceptable group shooting 24.3 grains TAC with the 50 V-Max (.420") with LC brass and Rem 7 1/2 primers. (1-8" tw.). I'd just start swapping bullets out with your powders and see how things go.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

The N133 is great powder - but doesn't always do the best in a particular barrel. The best powders I have used shooting the 50-53 grain V-Maxes came with either Accurate LT-32, Reloader 7, H4198 or IMR 8208XBR. Seems some tubes like a faster powder - some slower. Interestingly, many barrels with twists ranging from 1-12" to 1-8" all like the LT32 with the 50 V-Max. Since you have a lot of the N133 and TAC, I might try a different bullet with the N133 (maybe a little heavier - like a 55?) to see how that changes your tune and maybe try the 50 VG with your TAC. I did get somewhat decent groups shooting 21.8 grains of N133 with the 50 V-Max (1/2" MOA), using LC brass and Federal A/R Match primers (1-9" tw.). I found another acceptable group shooting 24.3 grains TAC with the 50 V-Max (.420") with LC brass and Rem 7 1/2 primers. (1-8" tw.). I'd just start swapping bullets out with your powders and see how things go.

If I can't get em down to .5 ish I will try some 62 gr eld-vt or some sierra BK. I have about 1700 53 gr vmax too lol.

 

[RegionRat]

If I can't get em down to .5 ish I will try some 62 gr eld-vt or some sierra BK. I have about 1700 53 gr vmax too lol.

I might loose the bet, but I doubt it... that you will easily find a good load with the 53 VMax. That is an under-rated bullet and I hope it stays cheap and available.... Maybe we should keep that quiet....

 

[searcher]

If I can't get em down to .5 ish I will try some 62 gr eld-vt or some sierra BK. I have about 1700 53 gr vmax too lol.

I know how that goes. I acquired a huge amount of 55 Grain Blitz Kings a number of years back on a super special. I'll be shooting those for a few more years out of a rifle or two, along with the V-Maxes.

 

[searcher]

I might loose the bet, but I doubt it... that you will easily find a good load with the 53 VMax. That is an under-rated bullet and I hope it stays cheap and available.... Maybe we should keep that quiet....

I shoot V-Maxes in different weights and in a half dozen calibers. The only one I couldn't get to shoot was the 6mm 87 grain. Good thing the 75 shoots like crazy. All those .224 models shoot like crazy. I'll try those 87's in another tube. I have faith.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

26.0 grains of n133 with the bullet about 10 thou into the rifling has been my pet load for a while now. it gives me 3,575 fps and 1/2 moa from my bipod, and close to 1/4 moa off my benchrest set up. it does this without breaking a sweat.

please work up to 26 grains. viht's max load is 24.7 grains. i'd start at 24.0 and work up in 0.2 increments until you hit pressure.

in my gun, the harder i push them the better precision and sd's i get.

 

[AckleymanII]

In my 223's, CCI BR4 with the thick cup works very well with N133, and the most accurate is right on the red line of pressure with 50g smoking! The thinner cup 400 may not take the pressure and pierce, you will have to determine the primer flow. My load with 50g is warm at 26.0g, and of course my lot # of powder/barrel may yield very different results than yours, so start at 24.0g on a 53g and work up.

I got very, very good results with N135 with 55g bullets with the CCI br4 thick cup primer, and would expect that the CCI 41 to be about the same.

I know several guys that would tell you that Benchrest Braxton's results are similar to what they got.

OP, if you are a rabbit shooter or coyote hunter, I would urge you to try the 55g Sierra lead tip blitz, glory be....what a hole that bullet puts in a coyote! Plus the 55g Blitz lead tip detonates jackrabbits!

On another note, in my 223 match chamber with zero freeebore in a 12 twist, 26.0g of N133 shoots a bug hole, and 26.3g blows the primer. 26.0 MAY spike pressures in hot weather of if your ammo gets hot.

Good luck!

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

In my 223's, CCI BR4 with the thick cup works very well with N133, and the most accurate is right on the red line of pressure with 50g smoking! The thinner cup 400 may not take the pressure and pierce, you will have to determine the primer flow. My load with 50g is warm at 26.0g, and of course my lot # of powder/barrel may yield very different results than yours, so start at 24.0g on a 53g and work up.

I got very, very good results with N135 with 55g bullets with the CCI br4 thick cup primer, and would expect that the CCI 41 to be about the same.

I know several guys that would tell you that Benchrest Braxton's results are similar to what they got.

OP, if you are a rabbit shooter or coyote hunter, I would urge you to try the 55g Sierra lead tip blitz, glory be....what a hole that bullet puts in a coyote! Plus the 55g Blitz lead tip detonates jackrabbits!

On another note, in my 223 match chamber with zero freeebore in a 12 twist, 26.0g of N133 shoots a bug hole, and 26.3g blows the primer. 26.0 MAY spike pressures in hot weather of if your ammo gets hot.

Good luck!

i have a 12 twist as well, all factory remington 700, 26" barrel

i agree the cci400 is pushing it, but so far i have yet to have one pierce *knock on wood*.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Thanks for the advice guys. I loaded a pressure test with TAC last night. Hornady and Hodgdon both have data with Hornady max at 25.8 Hodgdon at 25.4.

I found jam and backed off .020 and made a dummy round. This was too long for the mag. I slowly seated till it fit. I don't have my notes in front of me, but the tikka mag was longer than the pmag.

 

[AckleymanII]

Rabbit, did you work up till you found pressure, or are you working off of book max?

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Rabbit, did you work up till you found pressure, or are you working off of book max?

I load a pressure test that continues 1 load beyond max. For 223 case I use .3 gr increments. If 25 gr is max I can find published, I load up to 25.3. That has always been spicy enough I don't want to go further and I am seeing at least some pressure signs. If I wasn't 2 minutes from shooting I would load another charge or 2 and then be annoyed when I have to pull bullets. Haven't had to go home and load higher charges yet, but that is probably just luck.

 

[Lefty2506]

I'm currently using N133 and 53gr vmax in my Savage Model 12. Accuracy has been so so at around .75, but I feel like its more me than the gun/load for some reason. If I'm shooting groups on paper, .75 is what I get (don't remember the powder charge off the top of my head), but if I'm shooting at 1 moa plates at 400 and 500, it seems like I'm getting under .5 MOA. I chalk it up to a mental issue with paper on my part and move on

I have 18 lbs of TAC that I stock up on 2 years ago for around $27/lb, so I really need to work up a load with it and see if it does any better.