I have some questions using heavier 60-65gr bullets in a factory Remington VL SS Thumb hole gun with a 1-12' twist rate. I have read that you can go as heavy as 65gr bullets with a 1-12' twist but will the barrel really stabilize these Or should I be using nothing heavier than a 55gr bullet? What bullet selection would you use? Thanks again.
.223 1-12'' twist
- Thread starter Asscott4
- Start date
Asscott4: Along with bullet weight, overall length needs to be considered also. My factory Rem. 700 22-250 with the usual 1-14 twist would not stabilize the 55 gr. V-Max, at an overall length of .815'. 5 shot groups at 200 were 'good', but 53 & lighter gr. were much better. Then tried the 55 gr. Sierra h.p. 'Gameking', #1390, at an overall length of .715', a full 1/10 of an inch shorter than the 55 V-Max, and the groups are outstanding: my 'standard' bullet for my 22-250 now. As a bonus, because of the more 'rounded' shape of the ogive, I'm able to seat to touch, and still have the base of the seated bullet 2/3 of the way into the case neck. As with anything, when you're approaching the limits, load 10 or 15 samples of each and do a side-by-side comparison, and you'll learn what your rifle 'prefers'.
Cool cool. What grain of bullets/brands would you try? I have been trying to find a load that this rifle likes but I cannot seem to find it! This has been the hardest gun/cartridge to load for in my mind. I mean maybe I got lucky with my other rifles but it didnt seem to take this long to find it's 'sweet load'. I would really appreciate the pointers on what to try and what not to try. Thanks again.
-Cody
-Cody
Ruger Model 77 Mark II w/ 1-in-12', .223 Remington, twist handles 60 grain Nosler Partitions perfectly, and that's the heaviest bullets I care about regarding deer and pig hunting. Alliant Reloder 10x powder propels these deadly missles quite well as if on a mission of destruction. Barnes 53 grain TSX bullets claim adequate deer vengeance, so this is my newest venue of experimentation: no proven results to date. Nosler Partitions will knock the snot out of some pretty BIG adversaries. Topping the MASTER,'PARTITION,' would be quite a feat in .22 Centerfire application, me thinks. Cliffy
Heh right on. I was looking more along the lines of match bullets or heavy Pd bullets. I dont know how well a partition would work on a PD since its supposed to retain its wieght lol. So you take deer with your .223? Thats pretty cool. I would never have thought to use a .22 cal for game of that size but hey if it will do the job then why not right? Hey what is your accuracy for those loads? Thanks again.
Actually, I detest .223 Remingtons for Deer Hunting in general! BUT since they are legal in many states for Deer Pursuit, I offer positive loads for good-shooters with .22 Centerfires wanting to shoot-at deer. I use a .243 Winchester, that kicks lightly, and REALLY puts-down a deer with my moxy loads! Still, I must admit that a sixty-grain .224' diameter Partition bullet has all the necessary moxy to drop a deer within 100 YARDS with a proper hit. My major beef lies with 55 grain .22 caliber or less VARMINT bullets used to attempt to kill grand animals with shallow flesh wounds designed to cleanly kill woodchuck! Frangible Bullets and Deer Hunting don't MIX. ASK and I'll GLADLY suggest a suitable DEER LOAD in .22 centerfire caliber. Just MENTION in detail what your firearm IS, so I don't suggest some load over-powering your firearm!
If one MUST use a 55 grain bullet for deer hunting, make it a Speer Bear Claw bonded bullet. I have loaded some of these super-expensive bullets, but haven't tested them thus far. I'm too cheap to fire these at a paper target. 1-in-12" twist .223 Remingtons seem to have a 64 grain barrier regarding stabilization. The 60 grain Nosler Partition is my best load for deer application powerwise, not the most accurate but super potent, and not as pricey as Bear Claws. If someone has had great success with 55 grain Bear Claws, please let me know. Cliffy
hey sorry I didn't tell ya coal.I load it long and finish seating it with the bolt.seem's to like it long in my rifel.I only seat the bullet just long enough so that the bolt has to push it back only about .020 more.just keep in mind that it may pull the bullet when not fired.so open the bolt easy if you haven't fired it.and its a great neck or head shot load.
Varmintwise regarding .223 Remington loads, 50 grain Speer T-N-T loads are difficult to argue against. Reloder 10X is impossible to argue against, and of course, a MAGNUM primer helps a lot. Since I went to 55 grain fare, I no longer load 50 grain bullets. I continue experimenting, so I currently study 55 and 60 grain bullets only in .223 Rems. Berger 55 grain Varmint bullets seem to love piercing bullseyes at 200+ yards. Live and Learn, since my best loads keep getting better. Cliffy
Asscott4,
Berger used to make a 64gn HP Match flat-base bullet for 12in twist, that offered a higher BC than the more common 52/53gn match jobs. I used it in a Remy 700VS with good results at up to 600yd, although this weight bullet in a .223 suffers a lot more wind deflection than heavier bullets in the 69-75gn class, and any decent match bullet from a .308W rifle.
Looking at the company's website, it doesn't list the bullet now, but does show 62 and 64gn Varmint HPs for 12in twist barrels which I suspect are similar, maybe just with a larger meplat for faster expansion.
Such designs, that are flat-base hence short for the weight are the only way you can use a 60gn + bullet in a .223 with a 12in twist barrel. The primary determinant of stability in any given rifle twist is the bullet length in relation to its diameter. With 68-70gn HPBT match bullets measuring between 0.9-1.0" length, they are 3.5 - 4 calibres long and need a 10in twist rifling rate, better still 9in.
Berger used to make a 64gn HP Match flat-base bullet for 12in twist, that offered a higher BC than the more common 52/53gn match jobs. I used it in a Remy 700VS with good results at up to 600yd, although this weight bullet in a .223 suffers a lot more wind deflection than heavier bullets in the 69-75gn class, and any decent match bullet from a .308W rifle.
Looking at the company's website, it doesn't list the bullet now, but does show 62 and 64gn Varmint HPs for 12in twist barrels which I suspect are similar, maybe just with a larger meplat for faster expansion.
Such designs, that are flat-base hence short for the weight are the only way you can use a 60gn + bullet in a .223 with a 12in twist barrel. The primary determinant of stability in any given rifle twist is the bullet length in relation to its diameter. With 68-70gn HPBT match bullets measuring between 0.9-1.0" length, they are 3.5 - 4 calibres long and need a 10in twist rifling rate, better still 9in.
Don't try to make a 1:12 barrel shoot something that it is not intended to shoot. Buy a BUNCH of Sierra MK 52 gr bullets and shoot them. You will be happy and money ahead. Remember the relatively small case capacity of the 223 and just be happy with bullets designed for that twist! You will be really pushing the cartridge to get a 69 gr bullet to shoot in a 1:12 twist.
My favorite load is 25.5 grains of H4895 with the bullets jumping .020" in my 1:12 twist 223.
If you want to shoot heavier bullets, get a barrel/gun with a faster twist. I have 2 other 223 with different twists, a Savage with a 1:9 twist and another Savage with a 1:7 twist. These shoot 69 and 80 grain gulles respectively quite well. I have not tried the 77 grain bullets yet as the 80's shoot so well.
p.s. Try the Russina Small Rifle Magnum primers if you have not already ;D
My favorite load is 25.5 grains of H4895 with the bullets jumping .020" in my 1:12 twist 223.
If you want to shoot heavier bullets, get a barrel/gun with a faster twist. I have 2 other 223 with different twists, a Savage with a 1:9 twist and another Savage with a 1:7 twist. These shoot 69 and 80 grain gulles respectively quite well. I have not tried the 77 grain bullets yet as the 80's shoot so well.
p.s. Try the Russina Small Rifle Magnum primers if you have not already ;D
My shots are dead-on, yet I only work with .223 loads because they are DEER LEGAL in many states. I use a .243 Winnie-Pooh w/ 100 grain fare for serious deer hunting. Target practice consumes three afternoons-a-week for me with 35 plus rounds fired every session. I practice far more than I harvest. I experiment with hundreds of possible loads, which keeps me at the rifle range a lot. Except for fishing, my retirement keeps me shooting, fishing, or at the Gym exercising. I'm an old, retired, fart with nothing better to do than try new things. When I say a load works, IT does for me. Cliffy
As Laurie mentioned, the 64 gr. Berger HP flat base, Varmint/"match grade" #22316 may be worth a try. Box label does say "for 1 in 12" twist or faster". I just used them, for the first time in a newly re-barreled Sako (Hart 1-9), at 300 yds., and was impressed: First 4 shots measured .935", followed by the fifth round "flyer" (of course), that opened up the group to an even 2". I don't place much faith in the results of one 5 shot group, rather want to see the average over a series ( 10 or more) of 5 shot groups, but for the first time tested, this Berger bullet, as with most others I've tried seems to have potential. The load was 24.5 grs. of VV N135, seated .020" off with Fed. 205M's, Lapua brass, 223 ctg., of course. 
IF you have a .223 Remington caliber, and wish to hunt deer-sized quarry, restrict your shots to 100 yards. I recommend 60 grain Nosler Partitions for proven results, but soon I shall try 55 grain Speer Trophy-Bonded Bear Claws, because I'm not quite as CHEAP as some people seem to think. Since Bear Claws were specifically designed for deer hunting, you'd think they'd back me up. Cliffy
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