222 rem fabled legend, or not vs. 223 rem

[82boy]

I have heard so much about the duce, but wonder why it disappeared. The duce had its popularity before my time, but I was wondering why it is not the sought after cartridge it once was. I understand that the ppc and br cartridges came around and lack of good brass killed this giant. If my understanding is right the 222 still holds a bench rest record.

My questions are: what does the 223 have over the 222, Everyone chambers rifles in 223 rem, is it because of the military influence that more 223’s are out there over the 222’s ? Does the 223 have an advantage over the 222?

Will there be a rebirth of the 222, or is it dead? I thought about having a barrel chambered in 222 rem, but how much if any advantages would I have over a 223? I have a gun built in 22br that I love, but is it a stupid thought to also have a 222? I have a 204 and 223 barrel for a savage and they both shoot in the low .3’s, but I thought on chambering this rifle in a Douglas XX or Pac Nor 222 rem barrel.

What are your experiences with the duce, and what is its advantages?

 

[vmthtr]

The 223 is more popular because of the brass and the fact the Military uses it. I had a 222 that shot really well, better than my 223, but brass for the 223 was so easy to get that I got rid of the 222. There is only 100 fps or so difference between the 2.

Mike

 

[fdshuster]

82boy: 222 Rem. is a great round. I've got 2, an older Rem 700 BDL. Barrel is not "pretty" as seen w/ my borescope, but it shoots, always under moa. Funny thing is, the dirtier the bore gets, the smaller the groups. The other is an old Sako Vixen,L46) that I've re-barreled w/a Hart s.s. 1-14. Groups are just a tiny bit larger than I can get w/ the 6ppc and 6BRs'. A consistently accurate load combo has been, recommended by Hodgdon) 22.2 grs. of H322, with the 50 gr. v-Max. Must be seated .020" off the lands, for both rifles. Seat-to-touch and the groups will open up. The big problem, now, is the lack of excellent Lapua brass,, I stocked-up while it was available). Having to work w/ Remington,, like I am forced to for the 222 Rem. Mag., also a Sako) is not "fun". Long barrel life, accurate, easy to load, minimal/no recoil, etc. for the plusses. Only negative I see is the brass problem.

 

[olympian]

Only negative I see is the brass problem.

I agree, although I have gotten the Winchester brass to work quite nicely. The military infatuation of the public is the only reason for the .223 especially since the .222 Mag is a better round. Mine is a Remington Varmint Special with a 26" tube and it is a great little shooter. Targets under 300m are best with this rifle and load,H322, 52gr. MatchKing at 3200fps). I got mine from a guy who had it freshly rebarreled by Remington. The original barrel had "over 20,000" rounds through it according to the original owner. This is one of my favorite rounds and I see no reason to get a .223 over a .222. Low recoil, long barrel life ++++

 

[Cheechako]

A little historical perspective.

The 222 was the basis for most of the early tests and prototypes leading to the eventual adoption of the 5.56 x 45. The only reason the 222 was not selected was because it was not possible to meet the long range helmet penetration tests without more powder to drive the 55 grain FMJ bullets.

The 222 Rem Mag is a better cartridge than the 223. What most people do not know is that Springfield Armory and Remington developed the 222 Rem Mag before the 223 but the project was terminated for several reasons, most of them political. If the right people had been aware of the cartridge, the 223 would never had been developed.

So, what's wrong with the 222? Absolutely nothing. If the Army had not been looking for a small caliber infantry weapon it would still be a premier 22 caliber cartridge for both varmints and targets.

Ray

 

[squirrelduster]

We have a duce that is just a blast to shoot. If there is a squirrel under 300 yards he is as good as dead. No kick or muzzle blast and ragged hole groups at 100 yards with the 50 grain vmax.
I have several other rifles but my favorite is the duce.
I have found that it is such an accurate cartridge that the brass doesn't seem to matter as much. You can shoot better with good sorted brass but even with the lower quality brass it seems to do a good job.
Plus it's cheap to shoot. 21.2 grains of H322 and a 50 grain VMAX is cheaper than the 17hmr.

 

[Travelor]

When I was learning to fly, I asked the owner of the flight school why everone always rented the newest planes in his fleet rather than the tried and true ones .

The answer was pure gold, " Well, it's kinda like the new girl in the whorehouse - she does not do anything different than the other girls, but every one wants to try her."

I thing this is why the gun herd shifted to the 223 over the 222.

George

 

[oldroper]

The 222 fame was build around a 1/14 twist barrel and the BR guys and with the 6ppc was kind of kiss of death for the 222.

I think there has to be some credit given to the 223 as to bullets heavier than 60gr and the 1/9 twist barrels etc and I don't think we would of got that type development with the 222.

I was at a gun show acouple months ago and seen a heavy barrel Browning in 222 so the 222 still lives. Two of my favorite varmit rifles that I use are the 222AI and 223AI beside the standard 222 and 223 and I still have some Federal match 222 cases for special occasions.

When I started shooting the 222 it was because of reputation for shooting small groups and I found that true over the years. I got the 223 because of cheap ammo might work out as a volume varmit rifle and it has a place in my varmit arsenal. I might take two or three rifles an a varmit shoot so for me it's better not two shoot same calibers rifles.

 

[pintopete]

oldroper, Take a look at a target I shot from a factory Remington 700V with only trigger adjustment using Hornady V-Max cartridges. Not handloads. Prone with a Harris bipod and rear sand bag. There are 7 rounds. No competition winner, but great for a hacker like me. I absolutely love the .222 and will most likely always own at least one. Easy to shoot, load, everything. As others have said, Winchester brass, Rem 7 1/2 primers, a good 50gr bullet to 3050-3100fps using H322 or N133 and get nearly one hole groups even with a good factory rifle. Find one, it will put a perpetual grin on your face. Good luck, Peter.

 

[Tommie]

The .222 Remington is generally considered to be the most inherently accurate factory cartridge. Here's why I agree:

A friend purchased a very used 788 chambered in .222. We put some loads together for the gun and headed to the range. I had the honor of performing the trigger duty. After touching off the rounds from load #4 I told my buddy "Well, we don't have to bother trying the rest of the loads". Load #4 did a five-shot group of .186"

If other .222 rifles shoot half as well as that 788, the cartridge is a winner.

Tom

 

[oldroper]

oldroper, Take a look at a target I shot from a factory Remington 700V with only trigger adjustment using Hornady V-Max cartridges. Not handloads. Prone with a Harris bipod and rear sand bag. There are 7 rounds. No competition winner, but great for a hacker like me. I absolutely love the .222 and will most likely always own at least one. Easy to shoot, load, everything. As others have said, Winchester brass, Rem 7 1/2 primers, a good 50gr bullet to 3050-3100fps using H322 or N133 and get nearly one hole groups even with a good factory rifle. Find one, it will put a perpetual grin on your face. Good luck, Peter.

Pete, good looking group. When I got in the Marines 1960 I started with the Grand then got the M-14 then we got some test rifles shooting this little small case called 5.56 we shot lots of ammo. When I left Chu Lia in 1965 I was still carrying a M-14 and I guess if I'd stayed in I would of got to use the M-16 and I just cann't dislike the 223.

When I got into Br shooting one of my practice rifles was a tight neck 222 and I still have that rifle along with afew other 222. Well good luck