.222 for deer hunting?
- Thread starter zorak
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bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
I will probably get run off the forum for this (BUT) I agree with most of you on one hand and dissagree on the other hand. I started off in 1974 with a 788 remington chambered in .222 That our local game warden loaned me. The first two years I cleanly harvested my bucks with it. The third and finnal year I used the little tripple deuce I harvested a 5 point buck and a 4 point bull elk, for you southern people I guess it would be a 10 pointer and a 8 pointer.I know it is too light for elk but it was what I had and for the record the elk made it about 10 yards and piled up! As you all know shot placement is everything, I don't care what your shooting. If you can't hit a milk jug @ 100 yards off hand which is the vitals on a deer every shot you have no business hunting deer anyway. There are some good .22 cal hunting bullets out there these days, there very very accurate and no recoil. For a young lady who hasn't shot much it would be a great confidence builder as she wouldn't be scared of it and would hit what she was looking @ Anotherthing, like I said I know it is no elk cartridge and probably shouldn't have used it, but deer? I don't know how they build deer in the rest of the USA but here in south east washington state and northern Idaho you can kill a thin skinned deer with a good sling shot. For 150 yards and under I don't understand why you couldn't make a clean ethical shot with a .222. For further shots,or heavy brush I agree a larger caliber would be needed. Ok I said it now lets have it I'm ready!
Wayne.
Wayne.
Wayne, if you can give me a better reason to use it than I can not to, than I will say your right.
Reason not to use it: Because there are other rounds that are much more effective and better suited to the game that still have little recoil, and it's better to have more gun than not enough. Why take an unnecessary chance and possibly cause a deer to suffer needlessly when you could just use a better suited round and greatly improve your chances of taking the animal cleanly, even if shot placement isn't perfect?
And the best reason of all, it can ruin your hunt if you lose a wounded animal, and even if you recover it, you may spend many, many hours tracking to find it. If you lose the trophy of a lifetime because you used an inadequate round, you will probably never live it down, especially considering how easy it is to just use a better suited round in the first place.
I know how it feels to wish you had brought more gun. It's the reason I will never use a .243 for deer ever again. It gave me the worst day I have ever had while hunting, and completely ruined my entire hunting trip. I would never want anyone to ever feel the way I did that day, as it has haunted me ever since. Good shot placement wasn't enough It's why I always stress to bring enough gun, as it's better to have plenty than to not have enough.
Reason not to use it: Because there are other rounds that are much more effective and better suited to the game that still have little recoil, and it's better to have more gun than not enough. Why take an unnecessary chance and possibly cause a deer to suffer needlessly when you could just use a better suited round and greatly improve your chances of taking the animal cleanly, even if shot placement isn't perfect?
And the best reason of all, it can ruin your hunt if you lose a wounded animal, and even if you recover it, you may spend many, many hours tracking to find it. If you lose the trophy of a lifetime because you used an inadequate round, you will probably never live it down, especially considering how easy it is to just use a better suited round in the first place.
I know how it feels to wish you had brought more gun. It's the reason I will never use a .243 for deer ever again. It gave me the worst day I have ever had while hunting, and completely ruined my entire hunting trip. I would never want anyone to ever feel the way I did that day, as it has haunted me ever since. Good shot placement wasn't enough It's why I always stress to bring enough gun, as it's better to have plenty than to not have enough.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Kenny,
Your Absolutly right more gun than a .222 would be better,The auther stated he had a .222 laying around and a lady friend interested in learning to hunt.I guess we dissagree on the .243 I think it is the best all around gun EVER!!!! and think it would make her a excellent deer rifle, but the auther didn't say he had a .243 or a .257 roberts or any other of the fine deer cartridges that are out there,he said he had a .222 and he was hunting black tailed deer,little thin skinned not much bigger than a coyote black tail deer. I think the little .222 can handle that. I am sorry to here you had a bad experience with a .243 and a deer hunt gone bad. Although I know your knowledgable enough to know that could have happened if you were using a 416 remington,just so happened you were using a .243. Again kenny I do agree if she could use a .308 win it would be better. as always I enjoy your thoughts and your knowledge.
Wayne.
Your Absolutly right more gun than a .222 would be better,The auther stated he had a .222 laying around and a lady friend interested in learning to hunt.I guess we dissagree on the .243 I think it is the best all around gun EVER!!!! and think it would make her a excellent deer rifle, but the auther didn't say he had a .243 or a .257 roberts or any other of the fine deer cartridges that are out there,he said he had a .222 and he was hunting black tailed deer,little thin skinned not much bigger than a coyote black tail deer. I think the little .222 can handle that. I am sorry to here you had a bad experience with a .243 and a deer hunt gone bad. Although I know your knowledgable enough to know that could have happened if you were using a 416 remington,just so happened you were using a .243. Again kenny I do agree if she could use a .308 win it would be better. as always I enjoy your thoughts and your knowledge.
Wayne.
I've killed deer with about everything from 22LR to 300 RUM. I'd take the triple duece over a bow ANYDAY. There is not an experienced bowhunter alive that has not lost a deer with a bow, yet it's advocated all the time. Let one person on the internet loose a deer with a .224" pill and they are unethical.
There are better choices for deer than the 222; but if that's all you got (or all you can make work) I'm sure it will work! Shoot them like you would with a bow. MAKE & TAKE good shots and there will be no "sleepless nights" ???.
I lost a deer once with a 7mag. Didn't stopped me from using it succesfully MANY times over. I used it more as a learning experience. Now I consider it too much gun.
There are better choices for deer than the 222; but if that's all you got (or all you can make work) I'm sure it will work! Shoot them like you would with a bow. MAKE & TAKE good shots and there will be no "sleepless nights" ???.
I lost a deer once with a 7mag. Didn't stopped me from using it succesfully MANY times over. I used it more as a learning experience. Now I consider it too much gun.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Coleridge said:
I was going to crop out a certian part of this post for the quote, the part about the bow I ended up reading this post about a dozen times or so and decided the whole post is totally spot on so I left the quote in its whole form and can only say one thing.
(Amen to that)
Wayne
I would have to agree. Like I have said before, there really ant much difference in a .224 bullet and a .243 only .019. So why does that make the .224 a bad bullet to hunt deer with. I to have lost deer with bigger cal guns but that doesn't make them unethical to hunt with.bozo699 said:
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Doug,
I missed the part of your post where you were sorry for opening up a can of worms,don't be its no can of worms it's a very inportant issue imo. I tend to agree with others that a little larger gun might be better I don't know. Shot placement is key you need to teach her to shoot and the very accurate .222 will definitly do that. All to often I see parents giving there child a 30/30 or .300 savage for there first deer rifle ??? Why don't they give them a .338 weatherby mag? Have you ever shot a 30/30 Thet are a short light weight carbine, I am 240lbs I own both a 30/30 and .300 savage,they kick like missuri pack mules.The child or wife to be, doesn't say much maybe because they don't want to hurt your feelings,but the heavy recoil is no fun and it ruins it for them and they soon loose there interest in hunting,or they become poor shots because there afraid of the recoil and they flinch,now were back to the begining SHOT PLACEMENT now that there bad shots it doesn't matter what cal they shoot they just hit there deer on there 4th shot low in the guts! I say let them learn on the .222 if she turns out to be a good shot let her take it hunting,if she enjoys hunting and it's not a one time thing for her buy her a .243 or a .260 or somthing she will enjoy and use for a lifetime.
Wayne.
I missed the part of your post where you were sorry for opening up a can of worms,don't be its no can of worms it's a very inportant issue imo. I tend to agree with others that a little larger gun might be better I don't know. Shot placement is key you need to teach her to shoot and the very accurate .222 will definitly do that. All to often I see parents giving there child a 30/30 or .300 savage for there first deer rifle ??? Why don't they give them a .338 weatherby mag? Have you ever shot a 30/30 Thet are a short light weight carbine, I am 240lbs I own both a 30/30 and .300 savage,they kick like missuri pack mules.The child or wife to be, doesn't say much maybe because they don't want to hurt your feelings,but the heavy recoil is no fun and it ruins it for them and they soon loose there interest in hunting,or they become poor shots because there afraid of the recoil and they flinch,now were back to the begining SHOT PLACEMENT now that there bad shots it doesn't matter what cal they shoot they just hit there deer on there 4th shot low in the guts! I say let them learn on the .222 if she turns out to be a good shot let her take it hunting,if she enjoys hunting and it's not a one time thing for her buy her a .243 or a .260 or somthing she will enjoy and use for a lifetime.
Wayne.
Hi everybody ,I want to go with wayne on this one,I live in South-africa and do a lot of hunting and also culling for the venison market.Wayne is absolutely right in that the most important part of any shot fired on a animal is shot placement.
Going to a bigger caliber to compensate for a bad shot is not on .I have rebarreled a .222rem sako after 6 years on control hunting and culling,if youknow your rifle and can shoot well that is the most important part,the worst cases of wounde animals i have seen was hunters with large caliber rifles that could not shoot them well and it always ended in a wouded animal no matter what the caliber.
Know your rifle intamately,even better than than your wife ,practice every chance you you can get ,and you will be amazed what some of the socalled small calibers are capable of
shoot straight
cheers
Willem
Going to a bigger caliber to compensate for a bad shot is not on .I have rebarreled a .222rem sako after 6 years on control hunting and culling,if youknow your rifle and can shoot well that is the most important part,the worst cases of wounde animals i have seen was hunters with large caliber rifles that could not shoot them well and it always ended in a wouded animal no matter what the caliber.
Know your rifle intamately,even better than than your wife ,practice every chance you you can get ,and you will be amazed what some of the socalled small calibers are capable of
shoot straight
cheers
Willem
I worked on a dairy farm some while in college, and the milker came in one day and just smiled. He had gone home the night before and there was a deer in his garden, it wouldn't leave so he got out his .22lr to scare it off. figured it would just "burn it up". He shot and it fell. I have heard too many people shooting deer with little stuff just to scare it off. Like a young boy I knew, who shot at one with a .410 shotgun while squirrel hunting, didn't realize #7 shot would kill one, but it did. but I also know someone who lost the buck of a lifetime with a 22-250, w/ a 52hpbt mk, hit it in the shoulder due to wind and nerves. it was killed by a neighbor the last day of muzzleloader season. the g-2's both measured just over 14" lg. so make sure she can shoot it well. no shoulder shots. keep them close, & heart/lung/neck/head. I too have lost deer with much bigger calibers (7mag, 6mm rem), it seems when you know you are shooting something small, you tend to be much better at shot placement.
Im from Iowa so we dont get to use rifles for deer hunting but wounded deer will be lost no matter what you have for a gun. I started deer hunting when i was 12 years old with a 12 guage shotgun and slugs(i don't recomend teaching someone to shoot that way) and cince then i have seen deer get shot threw the vitals and never seen again. That being said you might want to look into the newer savage edge rifles(if your concidering a new rifle for her). I've read they shoot pretty good for the money and can get them anywhere between 223 to a 30-06.
Well I have another story as well. ;D To start I do agree with what has been said as far as a .222 being too small. Myself I have taken deer with a 22mag. and many with a 220 swift. However all the shots were within my own capabilities, and the caliber's capability. As well I put the projectile where it needed to be for a quick kill (brain steam, or brain shot). My daughter at the time was 7 killed her first doe last year with a 220 swift at 80yrds. Again I have worked with her since she was 5 and new she was capabile of making a head shot at 80 yrds. As well we were hunting out of a 6x6 box blind I built with a shelf built in so my daughter was also using a front rest when she shot the doe. In other words yes the .222 can take whitetail size game but I would have to say that it has to be with in it's limts as well the shooter needs to be able to put the projectile in the head. If you Teach your fiancee to shoot in the correct discipline then she should be able to easily handle recoil of a 243, and similar cartrides. Also let her practice in the most likely positions that she may be in while hunting. Bipod, box blind, off hand, sitting, propped up on a limb of a small tree, etc. Stimulate shooting postions that she may accur while hunting. Be patience with her. Let her learn at her own pace. Make it as fun as possible. I have taught many young kids how to shoot, and some first time adults men and women. Everytime I have had to adjust what I try to teach them as they progress. (letting them move at their pace).
Mark
Mark
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
You know the posts have gotten a little off the authers original thread,and for a while I thought it was going to turn out badly but has turned out to be a great disscusion, a debate if you will, and a very good one @ that very informative,and some very good first hand stories. Doug you have got some pretty good mileage out of your thread. If this had been on snipershide there would have been 4 letter words flying everywhere. I am proud of all of us, some of us believed one way and some the other way and some could see both sides. I think for the most part we are all on the same page, there are probably more suitable cartridges out there but with proper shot placement knowing the limitations of yourself and the rifle the .222 could be used on deer sized animals with positive results.I for one would like to say thanks to you all for a great debate.
Wayne.
Wayne.
Where I live (Pa) it's illegal to hunt deer with ANY .22 cal. There's a reason. Don't do it. There are way too many decent 6mm, 25 cals, and 6.5mm's that don't hardly kick at all. Please reconsider. You'll thank yourself later by not opening yourself (and your sweetie) to a bad experience. We all know someone who has done it somewhere but that doesn't make it right.
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