.22 wildcats and the 90grn VLD

[SpencerC]

What are the limits of this bullet velocity wise(read, when does it disintegrate upon leaving the barrel)? If you were able to get 3600fps out of it, it would kill everything else on the line if it was accurate. I'm guessing the 22-243AI would likely be near the top, or maybe a 22x47?

 

[Erik Cortina]

22-284!

-X3M

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

Why not email this question to Berger and JLK and see what they have to say. I checked with Sierra for 90gr MKs and they say its only good for 2760fps!

The Bergers and JLKs are used a lot at around 3100fps without problems. Read this 6mmbr.com article on the 22BR wildcat shooting 90gr VLDs at these 3000+fps velocities. http://www.6mmbr.com/T2K22BR.html

This article was enough to convince me to build a gun up based on the 22BR, 6mm BR Lapua brass with 90gr VLDs is a match made in heaven.

Ian

 

[cmillard]

there was a great article in Precision Shooting Magazine (May 2009). Titled .22/6MM, Part II. It outlined various rockets--.22 wssm, .22-250, .22-250AI, .220 Swift, .220 Weatherby Rocket, .22/6MM, .224 TTH. The article talked about these various chamberings with varying twist rates and how fast different bullets could be pushed. It then got to the heavyweight bullets, then you started to see blow up. it seemed that 77 sierras fared well--as they must have a little thicker jacket--the 77s were pushed in excess of 3500 fps. 80 grainers faired ok also.

 

[SpencerC]

Yeah the Sierra 90's aren't meant for this, they are more suited for highpower or something, not F-class.

The last time I asked Berger for information, I was told to start loading my .223 80grn VLD's at a COAL of 2.25.....Maybe I'll luck out this time.

It's funny you should mention 22-284, it did cross my mind, and then I thought of 300 round barrel life and I dropped that idea haha.

 

[eddybo]

The 90 bergers do not fare well in the 22x47 when using a 7.5 twist. All the 80 grainers have no problems thus far. To complicate matters an 8 twist 22x47 will not stabilize the 90s. I think that the 90s are only available in the thicker jackets, so no help there. I have not tried the JLKs.

 

[SpencerC]

What do mean they don't fare well, failure, not accurate at a given muzzle velocity? The 90's do have the thick jackets and according to Bryan Litz, they should have no problem going to 3400+ as long as the barrel is in good shape with no rough spots. 1-8" barrels are right on the edge of stabilization even with the increased speed, a 1-7 will need to be used unless you get a 1-7.5 or something from Bartlien, they are the only ones that guarantee the twist you ask for as well as being able to make any twist you dream of. Wether you need a 1-7 or a 1-7.1822, apparently they can do it.

 

[FilippoMo]

In 1992 I developed a wildcat cartridge based on the 7,5x55
swiss case improved and necked down to .224.It would be similar to 22-284.I do not like rebated cases.I had 93 grains bullet made by Mike Walker and they could be stabilized in
7.8 5R Obermeier barrel.The 6,5 twist proved a disaster
breaking bullet just past the muzzle.We did not have long range facilities so I cannot comment on long range performance.
A guy got away with 1 in 8" shooting 90 grainers at 1200
out of a 223 Remington.
All the people who make cut barrel can supply any twist
you fancy:I would be confident with 7.8.
I hope this help
Filippo

 

[Dasher]

I have a 22-243AI with a 1x8 tw Krieger. It shoots the 75, 80, and 90 grain Bergers very well. It has killed several deer at over 500 yds with the 80's and 90's. Was going to do the 284 case but decided to go this route for a little bit better barrel life.

 

[SpencerC]

Nice rifle. What kind of speeds are you finding with the 80's and 90's? How many rounds do you have through it so far?

 

[Dasher]

I have not chronographed it yet. I have less than 100 rounds through it.

 

[eddybo]

I mean failure within the first 300 rounds of barrel life. Now I was over using the 90s at 3300+ and shooting at looong range prairie dogs at at alarming rate. With some care maybe your mileage will vary.
I would not build a 22x47 around the 90 berger without an alternative bullet in mind.

What do mean they don't fare well, failure, not accurate at a given muzzle velocity? The 90's do have the thick jackets and according to Bryan Litz, they should have no problem going to 3400+ as long as the barrel is in good shape with no rough spots. 1-8" barrels are right on the edge of stabilization even with the increased speed, a 1-7 will need to be used unless you get a 1-7.5 or something from Bartlien, they are the only ones that guarantee the twist you ask for as well as being able to make any twist you dream of. Wether you need a 1-7 or a 1-7.1822, apparently they can do it.

 

[cmillard]

for those bullets--80s and 90s, i would not go any faster than a 7 twist. i have successfully shot the 90 vld bergers out of my 18" 7" twist douglas barrel on my long range ar-15. working up loads, my starting load yielded 2300+- fps and at 100 yards, there was no evidence of understabalization. i worked the loads up to the 2500 fps mark and got great results with the 90s. i would be curious to shoot these at 500+ yards to see if they are still stable. with the 90s at 2500 fps, i was using h-380--compressed and had single digit sd (which is the first time i have ever gotten single digit sd on my gas guns).

 

[fordwrench]

For what its worth I had visions of a 22-6mm. I just love the long neck on that case. Anyway, I managed to call sierra for their thought on this. Without question the man rec their 80gr bullet. It supposed to have less bearing surface than the 77 and can be shot to faster speeds that hang with the 90gr versions in the drift dept.the only thing I don't want to do is paint myself in the corner on one bullet for that gun.did you find any solid info on which case would be best? I think you could use a redding fl bushing die with the proper busking to easy wildcat lots of different cases.

 

[acloco]

75 gr AMax's will stay together at 39xx out of a 1:8 twist 22/6mm AI.

 

[medicineman]

I shot some of the original 90 SMK's (the pilot run) out of my 22-243 @ 3500 fps. It was a Douglas 1-8". I was shooting 80's @ 3600 fps with H4350, and when I tried the 90's I had to go to Rel 25. I lost a few bullets when the temperature surpassed 110 degrees, but other than that, the first group I shot was less than an inch @ 300. I then got a bulk box of the 90's and found that they changed the jackets and they did not shoot as well. I also tried them out of my 22x47 Improved and with Rel 22 got 3350 fps. with no hard bolt lift. I don't think I could get any more powder in the case.
I had talked to Rich Macholtz from Sierra, and he told me that alot of shooters were losing bullets @2550 fps with 3 groove 6.5 " twist barrels. I never had a problem with 6 grooves and 8" twist.

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

I have finally put my 22BR together and shot its first 20 bullets. First 10 were 80gr Amax to run the barrel in, then onto the 90gr Berger VLDs for developing a target load. The barrel is a 7 twist 31.5" Krieger and hooked up to a Barnard Model P action.

The test load for the Amax was 30.0gr of Varget with CCI 400 primers and this delivered 3159fps and some initial tight bolt lift. A little hot for running in but with cleaning between shots it survived the string of 10 shots with almost zero copper being deposited.

First load with the 90gr VLDs was again 30.0gr of Varget for a velocity of 3080fps still with tight bolt lift but the primers looked ok and the brass showed no shiny pressure signs. I moved onto 30.5gr of Varget with the VLDs jammed .023" into the lands and this load proved to be exceptional. It delivered AV = 3116fps with easy bolt lift and ES = 5 with a SD = 1.6 for a five shot string. Accuracy was under 0.5 moa at 100 yards and this was with new brass and a barrel only 15 shots old at the start of the string.

The outcome was pretty amazing considering the neck tension was excessive with the new brass. After necking down the 6mmBR cases thru a Redding FLS die and then putting a Sinclair expander into the necks it was still noticeably tight seating the bullets. I'm pretty sure the accuracy will improve even more after a few more bullets are shot thru the barrel but at this stage its looking like I have hit pay dirt at the expense of only 20 rounds.

I started my testing with loads that were excessive for run-in but luckily were right around where I wanted to be for a target load. I used this 6mmBR article as a guide for a starting load, http://www.6mmbr.com/T2K22BR.html
I seem to have achieved higher velocity (longer barrel?) for less powder than described in this article but I have never had such incredible stats (AV=3116, ES=5, SD=1.5) from a new set up before.

Ian

 

[medicineman]

I would try some Rel 15.

 

[BradY]

Ian I like the sound of your 22BR. Ive done mine but to be honest the berger VLD's are proving to be very inconsistent. Thier length is all over the place and I can get a few in one hole then get the odd flier. Im having a bit more success with the sierras and they are more consistent in length. Also Ive tried 2209 with poor results, but 2208 has tightened groups up. My barrel is 29.5" 7 twist true flight on a trued howa 1500 action. I might give your load a go as Im only jamming about 10 thou at the moment.

 

[SpencerC]

I have to agree on the length consistency of the 90's. I first bought 200 and they were both different lot numbers and different lengths. After I found that out, and found out that they shot very well out of my .223, I ordered 1000 and got all the same lot number and the variations are gone. So, just make a note to use the same lot number or just watch how they seat to keep a consistent OAL/ogive to land distance.